In this issue:
Today in History - March 5
Chat: Quatermass
Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Re: er, Egyptian Povich?
Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Re: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
Many thanks...
Hugo Novel
Re: Hugo Novel
RE: Hugo Novel
Re: Hugo Novel
Re: Hugo Novel
Chat: RLS Pilgramage
_Haunted Lives_: Part Two
Re: Alice
Re: Alice
Re: Hugo Novel
Re: Alice
Re: Alice
Re: Alice
Re: Alice
Re: Alice
Alice Meynell
Re: Hugo Novel
Re: _Haunted Lives_: Part Two
-----------------------------THE POSTS-----------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 11:28:09 -0700
From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org>
Subject: Today in History - March 5
1821
James Monroe becomes the first president to be inaugurated on
March 5, only because the
4th was a Sunday.
1905
Russians begin to retreat from Mukden in Manchuria, China.
1912
The Italians become the first to use dirigibles for military
purposes, using them for
reconnaissance flights behind Turkish lines west of Tripoli.
1918
The Soviets move the capital of Russia from Petrograd to Moscow.
Born on March 5
1824
Elisha Harris, U.S. physician and founder of the American
Public Health Association.
1824
James Merritt Ives, lithographer for Currier and Ives.
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 19:36:55 +0000 From: "Susan O'Brien" <sue(at)sjob.demon.co.uk> Subject: Chat: Quatermass I too remember Quatermass and the Pit on TV in the late 50's, and remember being very scared! Even in black and white the special effects were much better than the film. To wander really off topic - look what they did to 'The Day of the Triffids'! which I remember best as a radio serial, although there was a TV serial about 10 years ago. > Oddly enough, or perhaps not, when I did a Quatermass search on >Amazon, all I got was Allan Quatermain stories! > Since I've spent some time this morning recalling these films, I've >thought about the anti-government, anti-military take in several of the >episodes. The 'guvmint' is always trying to hush up the various terrible >things that are happening to avoid panic; Quatermass stolidly goes off on >his own -- and takes the bureaucrats on. Sorry to go so OT, since this is >out of our period, but considering what Britain was like in the 50s - dull, >dreary, rationing, etc., was this a political statement -- or am I reading >too much into it now? > Penguin published the screenplays of the first three TV serials, I have copies in 'my' Play Collection, and read them occasionally just for that take on life. I think we had just got to the start of the 'Never Had It So Good' era, and CND was formed around then, so the anti-establishment view isn't so surprising. I think the theory now is that ve government hadn't learned to take TV seriously, so producers were much freer then. Nothing like nostalgia for making people de-lurk! - -- Susan O'Brien Dorothy L. Sayers Centre and Spotlight Drama Collection Witham Library, Essex Tel: 01376 519625 Fax: 01376 501913 sue(at)sjob.demon.co.uk
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 15:52:02 +0300 From: cbishop(at)interlog.com (Carroll Bishop) Subject: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu Hi everyone. I'm back online after a break during which I've written some bits of a play or plays, and a ballet scenario. Stephen said you guys were discussing LeFanu's Haunted Lives Part 2 this week so I read those two episodes (wonderful dialogue), and while I was about it, several stories having to do with haunted violins. Rhombus Media here in Toronto together with an international team have recently done a really gorgeous film called THE RED VIOLIN, which I've seen twice and intend to see many times more. Right after that I read a book by an Italian novelist, Paolo Taubensig (?), called CANONE INVERSO, another haunted violin tale. The MUSIC-ESSENCE story was intriguing too, though I couldn't follow the lover/teacher's method of conveying scales to the deaf pupil. I could hear her music, but not his. And what is the significance of Meyerbeer's ROBERT LE DIABLE appearing in these tales? Anyway, I'm always fascinated by musical plots and synaesthesia generally. I liked the color symbols in MUSIC-ESSENCE -- though again, the theory didn't speak to me. The colors did, but probably would have in any arrangement. I may even have rearranged them as I read the words. I'm going to look into the archive on music -- but would love to hear from anyone else who's interested in haunted violins, haunted harps (lots of Aeolian harps) -- my harper friend tells me that harpers almost always give names to their instruments -- haunted organs (THE NEBULY COAT by John Meade Falkner and DIVINE INSPIRATION by Jane Langton) -- singers -- and so on. Haunting rather than haunted perhaps. TRILBY certainly, and DANIEL DERONDA. Others? Some connection here between chords and the spinal cord (chord?). I hope we're going to read all of the LeFanu. It's great writing, and I like getting it as a serial. Carroll Bishop (cbishop(at)interlog.com)
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:59:38 -0600 From: athan chilton <ayc(at)UIUC.EDU> Subject: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu > >I'm going to look into the archive on music -- but would love to >hear from anyone else who's interested in haunted violins, haunted >harps (...snip) Haunting rather than >haunted perhaps. TRILBY certainly, and DANIEL DERONDA. Others? I'm interested in any sort of haunted musical instrument. I'm sure that musical instruments retain "impressions" of those who played them and cherished them. In fact, in an old story of mine, there's a haunted Chinese gong. It 'somehow' manages to sound when the associates of its late owner come to gather up his instruments. One of the musicians 'sees' what he thinks is the form of his deceased band-mate, at the moment when the gong begins to sound. He and the others take this as a message from the dead, that they should stop mourning and start playing again... It's not that great a novel, but have you read Anne Rice's "Violin"? The violin in question is owned by the ghost of a Russian musician, and seems to have the power to turn the story's heroine into a fine violinist, though she has no such skill to begin with. athan ayc(at)uiuc.edu
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:21:21 +0300 From: cbishop(at)interlog.com (Carroll Bishop) Subject: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu >>I'm interested in any sort of haunted musical instrument. I'm sure that >musical instruments retain "impressions" of those who played them and >cherished them. In fact, in an old story of mine, there's a haunted >Chinese gong. It 'somehow' manages to sound when the associates of its >late owner come to gather up his instruments. One of the musicians 'sees' >what he thinks is the form of his deceased band-mate, at the moment when >the gong begins to sound. He and the others take this as a message from >the dead, that they should stop mourning and start playing again... > >It's not that great a novel, but have you read Anne Rice's "Violin"? The >violin in question is owned by the ghost of a Russian musician, and seems >to have the power to turn the story's heroine into a fine violinist, though >she has no such skill to begin with. Hi Athan. I presume that's the werewolf Anne Rice? I'll have to look into it -- Russian musicians having joined the musical party in my fantasy life. (The ballet is about Nijinsky.) I once tried writing a novel about a Russian composer during glasnost, here in N. America on a conducting tour and contemptuous of our culture. (I was in a choir where a Russian guest-conducted the Rachmaninov Vespers.) I had a lot of fun with him. Is your "old story" a short story or what? Yes, impressions of those who played them and cherished them, and of their makers, and of the composers of the music as well? Why not? Vibrations...."Music, when soft voices die/Vibrates in the memory?" Good Lord, that's Shelley.
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:39:46 -0500 (EST) From: Lilia Melani <LLMBC(at)CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Re: er, Egyptian Povich? Would you like me to send you your department mail? If so, to East Hamtpon or to Brooklyn? I sent the invitation andput it in your box. It is 7 pm, on Wed., March 24, at the Nice Restaurant on East Broadway. Lillian Schlissel is coming, and I am sure she could give you a ride if she is driving. I didn't check your schedule, but I hope you aren't teaching on Wed. nights. I am sureyour students were delighted to see you.
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 23:29:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Carroll Bishop wrote:
>
> Hi everyone. I'm back online after a break during which I've written
> some bits of a play or plays, and a ballet scenario.
> The MUSIC-ESSENCE story was intriguing too, though I couldn't follow
> the lover/teacher's method of conveying scales to the deaf pupil.
> I could hear her music, but not his. And what is the significance
> of Meyerbeer's ROBERT LE DIABLE appearing in these tales? Anyway,
> I'm always fascinated by musical plots and synaesthesia generally.
> I liked the color symbols in MUSIC-ESSENCE -- though again, the theory
> didn't speak to me. The colors did, but probably would have in any
> arrangement. I may even have rearranged them as I read the words.
>
Welcome back to the list, Carroll! I'm glad to hear that you have
made so much progress in your work.
One reason that Meyerbeer's opera is mentioned was Ludlow's great
fondness for this composer. Ludlow was a music critic who was
especially keen on opera, and Meyerbeer was his idea of the field's
ultimate _maestro_. By the same token, he included in the
story the names of some of the great singers of his day--names
that nowadays mean nothing to us, since their art went unrecorded.
Ludlow was also quite interested in the theories of Pythagoras; indeed
he accredits his most famous work, _The Hasheesh Eater_ to the musings of
a "Pythagorean." Much of his musical theorizing, I then assume,
would have come from his study of that ancient.
I think that part of Ludlow's portrait of the teacher, however, was
to show that he lacked the direct apprehension and understanding
of his pupil. He knows the theory; she knows the song--and between
the two there are, as you intimate, worlds of difference. We might,
then, see Ludlow as simply showing off his technical knowledge. But a
more amenable interpretation (to me at least) was that he was
deliberately showing that this knowledge, valuable as it might be,
is far from being in harmony with the "music essence."
Bob C.
_________________________________________________
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Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
Whatever things are pure, whatever things are
lovely, whatever things are of good report, if
there is any virtue and if there is anything
praiseworthy; meditate on these things
Philippians 4:8
rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 23:52:10 +0300 From: cbishop(at)interlog.com (Carroll Bishop) Subject: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu >On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Carroll Bishop wrote: > >> >> Hi everyone. I'm back online after a break during which I've written >> some bits of a play or plays, and a ballet scenario. >> The MUSIC-ESSENCE story was intriguing too, though I couldn't follow >> the lover/teacher's method of conveying scales to the deaf pupil. >> I could hear her music, but not his. And what is the significance >> of Meyerbeer's ROBERT LE DIABLE appearing in these tales? Anyway, >> I'm always fascinated by musical plots and synaesthesia generally. >> I liked the color symbols in MUSIC-ESSENCE -- though again, the theory >> didn't speak to me. The colors did, but probably would have in any >> arrangement. I may even have rearranged them as I read the words. >> > >Welcome back to the list, Carroll! I'm glad to hear that you have >made so much progress in your work. Hi Bob! Yes I agree. But here's ROBERT LE DIABLE popping up in the Le Fanu story two. Synchronicity strikes again! I'm looking up ROBERT LE DIABLE -- there must be something in it or about it. I found myself wanting to know more about how the deaf experience music. They do feel rhythmic vibrations. I suppose it's an entirely different thing if you have lost hearing (Beethoven) -- his stuff becomes supernal and (I've heard) almost impossible to sing -- Ninth Symphony finale voice range up in the stratosphere. By the way -- speaking of musical alchemy -- Robertson Davies' opera THE GOLDEN ASS is opening in Toronto in April. Went to a lecture about it at the Canadian Opera Repertory's headquarters -- they're very excited about it and expect it to be a big event. I'll cover it and post a review, Rob Davies was gaslit enough for all of us. Oh I miss him. Carroll
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:01:58 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu Hey Carroll... I echo Bob is saying glad your work goes well. On the haunted music theme... there's a Kabuki play, a very popular one, in which a man hangs around a woman playing a drum. turns out the man is really a fox and the drum is made out of the skins of the fox's parents. He reveals himself, and the woman (an onnagato, of course) is touched. Her husband appears and, also moved by the fox's love for his parents, gives him the drum. At which, the fox goes through some incredible acrobatics and winds up flying very very high over the stage and the audience, transported by regaining the presence of his parents. Not in our period, but interesting nonetheless. I have a video of parts of this play, but can't remember the Japanese title. if you want, I'll check it out. best phoebe
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 00:53:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Music in Gothic/Sheridan LeFanu
A quick web search turned up the following on the contributions of
Pythagoras to music. I think that we see some of the teacher's system
in _The Music Essence_ here displayed.
>>
Although many names of musicians are recorded in ancient sources, none played
a more important role in the development of Greek musical thought than the
mathematician and philosopher PYTHAGORAS OF SAMOS (6th-5th century BC).
According to legend, Pythagoras, by divine guidance, discovered the
mathematical rationale of musical consonance from the weights of hammers used
by smiths. He is thus given credit for discovering that the interval of an
octave is rooted in the ratio 2:1, that of the fifth in 3:2, that of the
fourth in 4:3, and that of the whole tone in 9:8. Followers of Pythagoras
applied these ratios to lengths of a string on an instrument called a canon,
or monochord, and thereby were able to determine mathematically the intonation
of an entire musical system. The Pythagoreans saw these ratios as governing
forces in the cosmos as well as in sounds, and Plato's Timaeus describes the
soul of the world as structured according to these same musical ratios.
For the Pythagoreans, as well as for Plato, music consequently became a
branch of mathematics as well as an art; this tradition of musical thought
flourished throughout antiquity in such theorists as Nicomachus of Gerasa
(2d century AD) and PTOLEMY (2d century AD) and was transmitted into the
Middle Ages by BOETHIUS (6th century AD). The mathematics and intonation
of the Pythagorean tradition consequently became a crucial influence in
the development of music in medieval Europe. Followers of the peripatetic
tradition, especially Aristoxenus (4th century BC), found the Pythagorean
ratios too archaic and restrictive and began a more empirical tradition of
ancient musical thought.
>>
I believe that Ludlow may have been positing a lesson that has its roots
in Platonic ideas as well as Pythagorean ones. In Plato the further we
are from the forms or essences of things the less we comprehend
reality; and on earth, where we perceive through our senses alone, we
are at a considerable distance from the real, which we comprehend only
in its shadow form (_vide_ the myth of the Cave). What our hero in
Ludlow's story fails to appreciate is that Margaret, though deaf, is far
closer to the form, the essence, the ideal of music, than he is. Thus, she
speaks of music as bringing her closer to God, which shows that she has a
direct experience of the spirit that holds the world(s) together through
an underlying harmony. What destroys Margaret more than anything
else is the disequilibrium of noise that begins after she is "cured."
What she experiences for the first time is disharmony, and the possibility
of chaos.
Our narrator is punished, I believe, not so much for his knowledge of
theory as for not distinguishing between the shadow and the real.
Bob C.
_________________________________________________
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Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
Whatever things are pure, whatever things are
lovely, whatever things are of good report, if
there is any virtue and if there is anything
praiseworthy; meditate on these things
Philippians 4:8
rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:31:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jack Kolb <KOLB(at)UCLA.EDU> Subject: Many thanks... ...to all those who provided such thorough and appreciated information on Stevenson's The Body-Snatcher, particularly Leonard Roberts, John Woolley, Deborah McMillion, Joseph Milutis, Patricia Teter, James Rogers, Marta Dawes, and of course Stephen. As usual, even a veteran like me is impressed by the knowledge and generosity of GASLIGHT. Jack Kolb Dept. of English, UCLA kolb(at)ucla.edu
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 01:46:57 -0900 From: Robert Raven <rraven(at)alaska.net> Subject: Hugo Novel To all Gaslighters, I'm extremely interested in obtaining a copy (in English translation) of Victory Hugo's novel The Man Who Laughs. I'll be happy to reimburse anyone for its purchase, plus of course a finder's bonus and shipping costs, with reason (my wife claims I'm not a very reasonable person, so I'm not entirely sure where the boundary here is). If you manage to find a copy of this book, please contact me via e-mail first: rraven(at)alaska.net. Any of my British colleagues spend time browsing the used book stores on Charing Cross Road regularly? Or Foyle's? I was there last November, but was unable to locate this book then, although I did come up with a number of other gems. Anyhow, all help gratefully accepted and acknowledged. Bob Raven
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 22:52:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jack Kolb <KOLB(at)UCLA.EDU> Subject: Re: Hugo Novel If you try http://www.bookfinder.com/ (formerly MX Bookfinder), you'll find copies available from $10 to $225. Jack Kolb Dept. of English, UCLA kolb(at)ucla.edu >To all Gaslighters, > >I'm extremely interested in obtaining a copy (in English translation) of >Victory Hugo's novel The Man Who Laughs. I'll be happy to reimburse >anyone for its purchase, plus of course a finder's bonus and shipping >costs, with reason (my wife claims I'm not a very reasonable person, so >I'm not entirely sure where the boundary here is). If you manage to >find a copy of this book, please contact me via e-mail first: >rraven(at)alaska.net. Any of my British colleagues spend time browsing the >used book stores on Charing Cross Road regularly? Or Foyle's? I was >there last November, but was unable to locate this book then, although I >did come up with a number of other gems. Anyhow, all help gratefully >accepted and acknowledged. > >Bob Raven >
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:03:08 -0500 From: "James E. Kearman" <jkearman(at)mindspring.com> Subject: RE: Hugo Novel Robert Raven wrote > > I'm extremely interested in obtaining a copy (in English translation) of > Victory Hugo's novel The Man Who Laughs. Gaslighters may be interested in these sites: http://www.abe.com http://www.bibliofind.com and the one mentioned by Jack Kolb: http://www.bookfinder.com Call your bank and have them raise the credit limit on your charge cards! Cheers, Jim
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 13:19:51 -0900 From: Robert Raven <rraven(at)alaska.net> Subject: Re: Hugo Novel Many thanks to Jack Kolb, Deborah McMillion and James E. Kearman for their astonishingly quick responses to my query about The Man Who Laughs. It's very helpful, and I hope to obtain the thing shortly. For those unfamiliar with it (and there must be many), this book can lay claim to being the most mystifyingly and unjustly neglected masterpiece of fiction available in English, period. A lot of people who have read it seem to feel it rivals Les Miserables and Hunchback as Hugo's best work; it has a lot in common with Hunchback in atmosphere, and is perhaps more menacingly powerful. My intention if I can obtain a non-copyrighted edition is to turn it into an e-text and make it freely available on the web. I'm currently preparing such an e-text for my nominee for the second-most unjustly neglected masterpiece, Mark Twain's Joan of Arc. Anyhow, mucho thanks! Bob Raven
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 21:39:01 -0500 (EST) From: TFox434690(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Hugo Novel I recall a Lon Chaney silent movie based on the Hugo novel. I believe is came out in 1925. I remember Chaney's make-up (as usual) was quite spectacular. He formed his mouth into a permanent smile. Has Gaslighter seen this movie recently? Tom Fox
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:08:12 -0500 From: "James E. Kearman" <jkearman(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Chat: RLS Pilgramage Last year, during a one-day, 500-mile excursion to the Adirondacks, I visited the home where Robert Louis Stevenson lived during his brief residence in the U.S. Michael de Larrabeiti, writing in the London Sunday Times for March 7, describes his rather more difficult visit to the Samoan island of Upolu, where Stevenson spent his final days and is buried. It's a lengthy article (but very interesting) and you can find it in the Travel section of the Times, http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?2254451 If you can't access the article and want to read it, my computer will automatically send you a copy. If your email program can display HTML mail (Outlook, Outlook Express and recent versions of Netscape, among others), send me an email with 0306HTML in the Subject line and nothing in the body of the message. This version includes the map that illustrates the article. Send to mailto:jkearman(at)iname.com If your email program cannot display HTML, put 0306TXT in the Subject line and nothing in the body of the message. Send to mailto:jkearman(at)iname.com Cheers, Jim
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Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 01:10:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: _Haunted Lives_: Part Two
I am up to Chapter 19 and have to say that I'm thoroughly enjoying the
way LeFanu is building the suspense, especially where the character and
intentions of Dacre are concerned. A great air of mystery surrounds him.
Lord Ardenbroke calls him a "Doppelganger" and advises Laura to shut
her door against him. Dacre also seems to have appointments only by night,
recalling the habits of the vampire. And yet he seems to have a genuine
interest in Laura's dilemma, too, and I'm not sure whether there is some
truth in it or if he is pretending. Indeed, I half-suspect that he wrote
those two nasty letters to Laura himself. (Nothing could explain better
how it came about that the letter-writer knew that Laura was using Dacre
to find him out.) Or could it be, as Lord Ardenbroke suggests, that there
are two Dacres--one of which is the Doppelganger?
In the meantime, DeBeaumirail is talking about using some kind of
witchcraft against Laura, and even refers to her as a witch. If he really
has a secret connection with Dacre, could it involve a quarrel--let's say,
between rival magicians?
Btw, I love the way LeFanu uses Mrs. Waddell for comic effect--she is a
greater innocent than her ward Laura--or at least appears to be so.
In this novel there is no telling. LeFanu, like a good detective story
writer, throws suspicion on everyone. Still, it's difficult to think that
a woman who loves dogs would ever be even the accomplice of a villain--not
for an English audience.
Every time I read a tale by LeFanu, I think of him alone in his dark,
rambling old house in Dublin, lying abed and writing by candlelight far
into the wee hours. I wonder if he did not spook himself many a-time by
his own tales.
If you aren't reading this tale, you are missing quite a yarn.
Bob C.
_________________________________________________
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Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
Whatever things are pure, whatever things are
lovely, whatever things are of good report, if
there is any virtue and if there is anything
praiseworthy; meditate on these things
Philippians 4:8
rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 23:58:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Kolb <KOLB(at)UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alice
Am I losing my mind, Deborah? Isn't Alice Meynell THE Alice? I can't check
on this for the moment, since all my books are unavailable.
I've order--from Amazon (many, many thanks) the Svankmajer version. Can't
have too many {grin}.
Many, many thanks. Jack (kolb(at)ucla.edu)
>
>>rather a reading of Alice Meynell's relationship to Dodgson, and all that
>>follows.
>
>Jack, it's been ages since I've seen Dreamchild but not so long since I've
>read anything about Dodgson. Who is Alice Meynell? Another of Dodgson's
>favorite children?
>
>(PS--recommend getting Svankmajer's video of Alice to anyone who loves
>Alice, but highly recommend it from Amazon--it is discounted there)
>
>Deborah
>
>Deborah McMillion
>deborah(at)gloaming.com
>http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
>
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Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 07:58:15 -0600
From: Marta Dawes <smdawes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Alice
The actual Alice that Dodgson wrote the stories for was Alice Pleasance
Liddell Hargreaves (her married name).
Marta
Jack Kolb wrote:
>
> Am I losing my mind, Deborah? Isn't Alice Meynell THE Alice? I can't check
> on this for the moment, since all my books are unavailable.
>
> I've order--from Amazon (many, many thanks) the Svankmajer version. Can't
> have too many {grin}.
>
> Many, many thanks. Jack (kolb(at)ucla.edu)
>
> >
> >>rather a reading of Alice Meynell's relationship to Dodgson, and all that
> >>follows.
> >
> >Jack, it's been ages since I've seen Dreamchild but not so long since I've
> >read anything about Dodgson. Who is Alice Meynell? Another of Dodgson's
> >favorite children?
> >
> >(PS--recommend getting Svankmajer's video of Alice to anyone who loves
> >Alice, but highly recommend it from Amazon--it is discounted there)
> >
> >Deborah
> >
> >Deborah McMillion
> >deborah(at)gloaming.com
> >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
> >
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Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 08:12:11 -0600 (CST)
From: James Rogers <jetan(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Hugo Novel
At 09:39 PM 3/6/99 -0500, Tom Fox wrote:
>I recall a Lon Chaney silent movie based on the Hugo novel. I believe is came
>out in 1925. I remember Chaney's make-up (as usual) was quite spectacular. He
>formed his mouth into a permanent smile. Has Gaslighter seen this movie
>recently?
>
>Tom Fox
>
>
I think you may be confusing two different films: I believe the Chaney
film was _He Who Gets Slapped_ (1924). It was MGM's first release and also
starred john Gilbert and Norma Shearer. It was based on a Russian play.
_The Man Who Laughs_ was released in 1928 and starred Conrad Veidt.
I just knew sneaking off and reading all those issues of _Famous
Monsters Of Filmland_ would pay off someday.
James
James Michael Rogers
jetan(at)ionet.net
Mundus Vult Decipi
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Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 06:15:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Kolb <KOLB(at)UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alice
Well, Liddell was clearly whom I had in mind. Now I have to figure out who
Alice Meynell was. Oh well: an interesting speculation.
Many thanks to Marta, and to Deborah.
Jack Kolb
Dept. of English, UCLA
kolb(at)ucla.edu
>The actual Alice that Dodgson wrote the stories for was Alice Pleasance
>Liddell Hargreaves (her married name).
>
>Marta
>
>Jack Kolb wrote:
>>
>> Am I losing my mind, Deborah? Isn't Alice Meynell THE Alice? I can't check
>> on this for the moment, since all my books are unavailable.
>>
>> I've order--from Amazon (many, many thanks) the Svankmajer version. Can't
>> have too many {grin}.
>>
>> Many, many thanks. Jack (kolb(at)ucla.edu)
>>
>> >
>> >>rather a reading of Alice Meynell's relationship to Dodgson, and all that
>> >>follows.
>> >
>> >Jack, it's been ages since I've seen Dreamchild but not so long since I've
>> >read anything about Dodgson. Who is Alice Meynell? Another of Dodgson's
>> >favorite children?
>> >
>> >(PS--recommend getting Svankmajer's video of Alice to anyone who loves
>> >Alice, but highly recommend it from Amazon--it is discounted there)
>> >
>> >Deborah
>> >
>> >Deborah McMillion
>> >deborah(at)gloaming.com
>> >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
>> >
>
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 08:21:39 -0600
From: Marta Dawes <smdawes(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Alice
I did a search; Alice Meynell was a poet born in 1850 London. I've
never heard of her, but I don't pay much attention to poets outside of
Byron and Shelley, and then I don't read their poetry. I'm interested
in their lives.
Marta
Jack Kolb wrote:
>
> Well, Liddell was clearly whom I had in mind. Now I have to figure out who
> Alice Meynell was. Oh well: an interesting speculation.
>
> Many thanks to Marta, and to Deborah.
>
> Jack Kolb
> Dept. of English, UCLA
> kolb(at)ucla.edu
>
> >The actual Alice that Dodgson wrote the stories for was Alice Pleasance
> >Liddell Hargreaves (her married name).
> >
> >Marta
> >
> >Jack Kolb wrote:
> >>
> >> Am I losing my mind, Deborah? Isn't Alice Meynell THE Alice? I can't
check
> >> on this for the moment, since all my books are unavailable.
> >>
> >> I've order--from Amazon (many, many thanks) the Svankmajer version. Can't
> >> have too many {grin}.
> >>
> >> Many, many thanks. Jack (kolb(at)ucla.edu)
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>rather a reading of Alice Meynell's relationship to Dodgson, and all that
> >> >>follows.
> >> >
> >> >Jack, it's been ages since I've seen Dreamchild but not so long since I've
> >> >read anything about Dodgson. Who is Alice Meynell? Another of Dodgson's
> >> >favorite children?
> >> >
> >> >(PS--recommend getting Svankmajer's video of Alice to anyone who loves
> >> >Alice, but highly recommend it from Amazon--it is discounted there)
> >> >
> >> >Deborah
> >> >
> >> >Deborah McMillion
> >> >deborah(at)gloaming.com
> >> >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
> >> >
> >
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:02:15 +0300 From: cbishop(at)interlog.com (Carroll Bishop) Subject: Re: Alice >I did a search; Alice Meynell was a poet born in 1850 London. I've >never heard of her, but I don't pay much attention to poets outside of >Byron and Shelley, and then I don't read their poetry. I'm interested >in their lives. Alice Meynell (1847-1922) -- two poems in Oxford Book of English Verse, one of which I always liked: The Lady of Lambs She walks -- the lady of my delight -- A shepherdess of sheep. Her flocks are thoughts. She keeps them white; She guards them from the steep. She feeds them on the fragrant height, And folds them in for sleep. She roams maternal hills and bright, Dark valleys safe and deep. Her dreams are innocent at night; The chastest stars may peep. She walks -- the lady of my delight -- A shepherdess of sleep. She holds her little thoughts in sight, Though gay they run and leap. She is so circumspect and right; She has her soul to keep. She walks -- the lady of my delight -- A shepherdess of sheep. "She" evokes Perdita, the goddess as Kore, "Searching for Lambs", and JC. Arcadia. I always assumed a male narrator but maybe not. I like "maternal hills." Maybe the goddess as Demeter! Carroll Bishop (cbishop(at)interlog.com)
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 08:47:53 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: Alice >>I did a search; Alice Meynell was a poet born in 1850 London. I was afraid, Jack, you might have mixed up Liddell for Meynell but it sounded like such a real name I was certain it was just another Alice! And it was. Alas, she wasn't in my dictionary so I am also grateful to Marta and Carroll for finding out what I couldn't. An interesting discovery! Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:35:15 +0300 From: cbishop(at)interlog.com (Carroll Bishop) Subject: Re: Alice Further on Alice Meynell, she was apparently a prolific poet and essayist, much influenced by 17th century religious poetry, converted to Roman Catholicism (so the lady of delight might be Mary), married and had eight kids by a writer-editor named Wilfred Meynell. They started a monthly magazine called _Merry England_. Francis Thompson was a contributor and friend. Carroll
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 10:25:23 -0600 From: Ann Hilgeman <eahilg(at)seark.net> Subject: Alice Meynell A quick check in THE FEMINIST COMPANION TO LITERATURE IN ENGLISH (Blain, Grundy, Clements, Yale University Press, 1990) gave me the following information. Alice Meynell, 1847-1922, born Alice Christiana Gertrude Thompson. Her mother was a concert pianist and painter, and her sister Elizabeth, Lady Butler, was a well-known painter. AM converted to Catholicism in 1872. Her first book of poetry, PRELUDES, 1875, was admired by Ruskin and Eliot. She married Wilfred Meynell, a journalist, in 1877 and had eight children (including a daughter, Viola, who wrote a memoir of her mother in 1929). Meynell was nominated for the Poet Laureateship in 1895. Her essays were published in the SPECTATOR, SATURDAY REVIEW and DAILY CHRONICLE. She edited a selection of poetry for children, THE SCHOOL OF POETRY, in 1923. She was a supporter of women's suffrage and in MARY, THE MOTHER OF JESUS, "she questioned women's social status." Much of her late poetry dealt with WWI. Ann Hilgeman
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:33:40 -0500 (EST) From: TFox434690(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Hugo Novel James You are correct. It's good to know someone else read those magazines as awell. Tom Fox
===0===
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 11:52:39 +0300 From: cbishop(at)interlog.com (Carroll Bishop) Subject: Re: _Haunted Lives_: Part Two >I am up to Chapter 19 and have to say that I'm thoroughly enjoying the >way LeFanu is building the suspense, especially where the character and >intentions of Dacre are concerned. A great air of mystery surrounds him. >If you aren't reading this tale, you are missing quite a yarn. > >Bob C. Loved your comments on our LeFanu serial, Bob. I like the wayward Laura. I always like heroines who go against sensible warnings and their own common sense. Emma -- Mrs. Bluebeard -- Rachel in THE MOONSTONE -- Eve -- Pandora -- Psyche -- Bathsheba Everdene... In vain we cry out "Oh, DON'T!", as our lambs head full speed toward....Mr. Fox? Mr. Wolf? Mr. Doppelganger? And turn the pages ever faster..... Carroll ------------------------------ End of Gaslight Digest V1 #52 *****************************