In this issue: RE: More Happy99.exe info Re: RE: More Happy99.exe info Re: RE: More Happy99.exe info Re: "Amore Dure" unhappy99 Happy99 Exe Attachement Re: "Amore Dure" RE: Casting the Runes RE: Casting the Runes Re: "Amore Dure" Today in History - Feb. 18 CHAT: virus/worm silver ware vs. silverware Re: CHAT: virus/worm Re: silver ware vs. silverware Re: CHAT: virus/worm Re: CHAT: virus/worm Re: "Amore Dure" and over-detailing elsewhere RE: "Amore Dure" and over-detailing elsewhere CHAT: Telling details versus over-description Re: "Amore Dure" and over-detailing elsewhere Re: over-detailing elsewhere Re: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description Re: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description Chat: Worms and Anarchists RE: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description Re: Chat: Worms and Anarchists Re: silver ware vs. silverware -----------------------------THE POSTS----------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:49:13 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: RE: More Happy99.exe info I hope I am still correct in saying that none of the warnings so far posted apply to computers using the Macintosh operating system. Peter Wood (a Mac user since the beginning)
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:57:00 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RE: More Happy99.exe info Oh Peter... I'm with you. A Mac user despite the problems....I love my Mac... and still saving money to replace my beta vcr.... hmmm phoebe
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:55:45 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RE: More Happy99.exe info This is one time I'm glad gaslight skipped me... never saw the document in question. Good karma. lightly, lightly, phoebe
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:39:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: Re: "Amore Dure"
From the first, you know that _no_ one with the name Medea could
be up to any good. And considering the fate of her other lovers,
you can find certainly, in the growing love interest of our diarist
Spiridion (an odd name for a Pole; I would have thought him a Greek), a
harbinger of his own fate. The last part of the story, in any case,
is an exciting read.
I do find the story overwritten, however. I can appreciate Patricia's
interest in the artistic descriptions and allusions, but somehow Vernon
Lee seems to believe that creating atmosphere demands piling up detail
after detail--as if she had here come across a guide-book and decided to
incorporate it into a story. She chooses, but she chooses everything--
which seems to be, from an aesthetic point of view, no choice at all.
This story--the most important part of it--takes place at Christmas;
and perhaps it is a sign of how utterly lost Spiridion is that this means
nothing to him. Indeed, he uses a church for his hellish trysts with
Medea. (I suspect that a story like this goes better in Rome and in a
Catholic church that it would in an English shire and a C of E chapel.
The lure of evil is that it can cloak itself in the most exotic,
beautiful, and mysterious forms--in the unfamiliar delight.) But I
don't know absolutely that our author intends us to find this situation
horrible. In Spiridion's exulting over Medea, in his great passion for
her, there seems to be something Lee wants us to envy.
Too bad that our narrator didn't find a real woman somewhere along the
line. He is, though, another "desert islander"--full of contempt for
everything but his own imaginings and undertakings. I suspect that we
might find many an academic taking Spiridion's very road.
Bob C.
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
Whatever things are pure, whatever things are
lovely, whatever things are of good report, if
there is any virtue and if there is anything
praiseworthy; meditate on these things
Philippians 4:8
rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:19:45 -0500 From: Linda Anderson <lpa1(at)ptdprolog.net> Subject: unhappy99 The "Happy99.exe" was sent a couple weeks ago to Hounds of the INternet. It's a lovely, lovely fireworks program. too bad it is so nasty. sigh. the poor lawyer who sent it to everyone thought she was sharing a cute little window of fireworks. Les Moskowitz emailed the same information that Bob Champ posted. When I logged on tonight after the basketball game (thanks, yes, we won- both women and men), I notice the download said "Happy99.exe". The only reason I laughed was I knew what to do. First- don't run the program (as I did the first time on Hounds). Deleting without running the attachment means the computer you have should, indeed, be fine. Otherwise, just follow the directions Bob gave you and you won't have a problem. Hopefully. The virus really works if you have exited the program (mail) or rebooted the computer since you ran the .exe program. if so, then the worm activates and you have a mess following the files to delete the dll's. sigh. Linda Anderson
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:46:35 -0800 From: MyShelf <myshelf(at)marlownet.net> Subject: Happy99 Exe Attachement Last nights Gaslight digest (Gaslight Digest V1 #44) had the Happy99 exe. as an attachment. A person who posted last night has the worm. Or it could be the Gaslight address that has it. thought you would want to know Brenda. (back to lurking).
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:03:15 -0500 From: lpv1(at)is2.nyu.edu Subject: Re: "Amore Dure" I I've disengaged myself from enough time consuming webs to finallly be able to sit down and truly start reading the weekly selections. I have to confess that I've dutifully downloaded most of the selections and as a result, I must have 100 plus odd gaslight stories floating around on my hard drive. Although I have not read most of the stories, I have scanned the members' reviews religiouslyj. Now, that I'm reading the stories, I got to wondering: should I look at the characters, stories, incidents, from my 20th century point of view or should I place myself in the 18th century point of view? This preface leads me to my response to the guidebook approach of describing the art in the small village of Italy. Frankly, as I read, I marvelled, as if I were an 18th century reader, without the access to the myriad art museum pages on the internet, without the public television art documentaries, and all I thought was, wow!! even a small town in Italy is so full of culture, art, etc. and it set the scene. where anything could and did happen. The overall feeling I got was that of a dark place, rather than an enlightened place. What engaged me in this story, was the fact that the character was a Pole. Was a Pole an exotic creature in 18th century England, Germany and Italy? This particular Pole was not an aristocrat! I have to say that I liked Medea --- hah! what a villain! And from so early an age. And she won at the end. That poor Pole! Also, weren't most Poles Catholic? So much more would that have been sacriligious for the church to have been used for a, what amounted to a "black mass." LuciePaula (une femme d'une certainne age and without the blessing of a classic education) >This story--the most important part of it--takes place at Christmas; >and perhaps it is a sign of how utterly lost Spiridion is that this means >nothing to him. Indeed, he uses a church for his hellish trysts with >Medea. (I suspect that a story like this goes better in Rome and in a >Catholic church that it would in an English shire and a C of E chapel. >The lure of evil is that it can cloak itself in the most exotic, >beautiful, and mysterious forms--in the unfamiliar delight.) But I >don't know absolutely that our author intends us to find this situation >horrible. In Spiridion's exulting over Medea, in his great passion for >her, there seems to be something Lee wants us to envy. > >Too bad that our narrator didn't find a real woman somewhere along the >line. He is, though, another "desert islander"--full of contempt for >everything but his own imaginings and undertakings. I suspect that we >might find many an academic taking Spiridion's very road. > >Bob C. > > >_________________________________________________ >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > >Robert L. Champ >rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu >Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity > >Whatever things are pure, whatever things are >lovely, whatever things are of good report, if >there is any virtue and if there is anything >praiseworthy; meditate on these things > Philippians 4:8 > >rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net >_________________________________________________ >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:55:01 -0500 From: "Roberts, Leonard" <lroberts(at)email.uncc.edu> Subject: RE: Casting the Runes Station KNX has a webpage at http://www.knx1070.com/. I haven't searched the page well enough to determine if it is possible to listen to the station on the web but it might be possible. However you can listen to an episode of Escape at Shawn's Old Time Radio Gallery (http://shawnt.com/mystery.html). Currently playing is The Orient Express starring William Conrad. Len Roberts > I'm assuming that I'm not alone in this group in confessing my addiction > to > the rebroadcasting (in L.A. on the CBS News station KNX) of old radio > dramas. I was recently delighted to catch one broadcast in the series > "Escape": an adaptation of M. R. James' "Casting the Runes." I'm about to > reread the story to see how well it was adapted. Unfortunately I didn't > get > to tape it, but I imagine it might ultimately be repeated. Amusingly, the > KNX program guide lists the title as "Casting the Ruins." Sigh. > > Jack Kolb > Dept. of English, UCLA > kolb(at)ucla.edu
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:41:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jack Kolb <KOLB(at)UCLA.EDU> Subject: RE: Casting the Runes Thanks, Len. It was the webpage (I should have been clearer) where "Casting the Ruins" was given. Alas, the site doesn't offer listening capacities. Last night's "Escape" was H. G. Wells "In the Country of the Blind," also quite well done. It's truly amazing to me how omnipresent Conrad was on these radio dramas (he did have a great voice). He was on the Wells' program; he was the second major voice on the following episode of "The Six-shooter" (though I'm not a Western fan, this is one of my favorites, and not just because of Jimmy Stewart: it's very professional). And of course he's Matt Dillon on "Gunsmoke." Sorry for a slightly off-topic post. Jack Kolb Dept. of English, UCLA kolb(at)ucla.edu >Station KNX has a webpage at http://www.knx1070.com/. I haven't searched the >page well enough to determine if it is possible to listen to the station on >the web but it might be possible. > >However you can listen to an episode of Escape at Shawn's Old Time Radio >Gallery (http://shawnt.com/mystery.html). Currently playing is The Orient >Express starring William Conrad. > >Len Roberts > > >> I'm assuming that I'm not alone in this group in confessing my addiction >> to >> the rebroadcasting (in L.A. on the CBS News station KNX) of old radio >> dramas. I was recently delighted to catch one broadcast in the series >> "Escape": an adaptation of M. R. James' "Casting the Runes." I'm about to >> reread the story to see how well it was adapted. Unfortunately I didn't >> get >> to tape it, but I imagine it might ultimately be repeated. Amusingly, the >> KNX program guide lists the title as "Casting the Ruins." Sigh. >> >> Jack Kolb >> Dept. of English, UCLA >> kolb(at)ucla.edu >
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:19:09 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: Re: "Amore Dure" Bob C. writes: << I do find the story overwritten, however. I can appreciate Patricia's interest in the artistic descriptions and allusions, but somehow Vernon Lee seems to believe that creating atmosphere demands piling up detail after detail--as if she had here come across a guide-book and decided to incorporate it into a story. She chooses, but she chooses everything-- which seems to be, from an aesthetic point of view, no choice at all.>> Very true, Bob. Indeed, the story is overwritten, and at times very dry, but the guidebook style seems to fit within the context of the story. Spiridion delves into the musty, dark archives, extracting a baroque, elaborate and even grotesque web-like story from the 16th century, which is the undoing of our scholar. The Roman setting is perfect for this overwritten story, since Rome itself fits this description, verging on the mystical at times. This story brought to mind a particular Capuchin church on the Via Vittorio Veneto, near the Piazza Barberini, called Santa Maria della Concezione, which houses the remains of over 4000 Capuchins. The bones literally decorate the walls and ceilings of the crypts, in ornate grotto-like designs. The tour is not for the squeamish. I would never describe this story as well written, but it certainly has fascinating elements. Patricia
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:32:33 -0700
From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org>
Subject: Today in History - Feb. 18
1813
Czar Alexander enters Warsaw at the head of his Army.
1861
Victor Emmanuel II becomes the first King of Italy.
1861
Jefferson F. Davis is inaugurated as the Confederacy's
provisional president at a ceremony
held in Montgomery, Ala.
1865
Union troops force the Confederates to abandon Fort Anderson,
N.C.
1878
The bitter and bloody Lincoln County War begins with the murder
of Billy the Kid's
mentor, Englishman rancher John Tunstall.
1885
"Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain, is published.
1907
600,000 tons of grain are sent to Russia to relieve the famine
there.
Born on February 18
1795
George Peabody, U.S. merchant and philanthropist.
1862
Charles M. Schwab, "Boy Wonder" of the steel industry.
President of both U.S. Steel and
Bethlehem Steel.
1892
Wendell Wilke, Presidential candidate against President
Franklin Roosevelt.
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:05:20 -0700
From: sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA
Subject: CHAT: virus/worm
When I checked the digest version of Gaslight, I saw Happy99.exe as code rather
than an attachment. Did any digesters get it as an attachment?
The Happy worm was attached to an email sent by a Gaslight listmember. I am
sure there was no ill intent.
Deborah Mc. wrote:
>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:25:12 -0700
>From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com>
>Subject: viruses
>
>fortunately for MAC users the EXE would take a lot of twisting to get to
>work. I didn't know what it was and just deleted it, especially since it
>wasn't the kind of thing my computer easily opens. It's directed at PC's.
>Last listing for known viruses listed about 300 aimed at Macs and about
>48,000 for PC's. Good luck. That was scary--was this person someone who
>got our addresses from the web or did they actually subscribe and
>unsubscribe to send it?
>
>Deborah
>
>Deborah McMillion
>deborah(at)gloaming.com
>http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
Gaslight's SysOp wrote:
>Stephen, I saw this too. Yes, it appears that the message had the attachment
>happy.exe
>which is a known virus that spreads through email. It is not a problem unless
you detach and run the .exe file, something that >I hope any sensible internet
user would never do. But it might not be a bad idea to email the list warning
them not to detach >the attachment.
>
>Scott.
All in all, this is a point of confusion for some people who are constantly told
that email doesn't contain viruses despite the many hoaxes which are broadcast
by well-intentioned folks. We should always stress that "email attachments" may
contain viruses, as Jim K. was just saying.
Finally, one mail server refused to deliver the email with Happy99.exe because
it saw the virus in the attachment:
>A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The
>following address(es) failed:
>
> quintin(at)qbradley.freeserve.co.uk:
> Message appears to contain Win32/Ska.A virus - see
>http://www.datafellows.com/v-descs/ska.htm for details
Way to go, Quintin!! The URL gives still more explanation of the worm, if
you're interested.
Stephen D
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:14:43 -0700
From: sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA
Subject: silver ware vs. silverware
When I asked for help with the John Wilson Murray text that used "silver ware"
and "silverware" interchangeably, I immediately got the following brillian
answer from Linda A. I can't confirm it, but it sounds so right.
Stephen D
>Stephen:
>
>I was always taught that "silver ware" (two words) was tea and coffee pots,
>platters, creamers etc and that "silverware" was flatware, or knives sporks
>and foons. <G>
>
>
>Linda Anderson
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:21:59 -0500 (EST) From: TFox434690(at)aol.com Subject: Re: CHAT: virus/worm I received it as an attachment. I tried to open it but was not successful so I never executed it. By the time I had opened the next series of emails came through warning about it and I immediately deleted it. I have had not ill effects from it. Tom Fox
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:23:30 -0500 (EST) From: TFox434690(at)aol.com Subject: Re: silver ware vs. silverware I was raised by a very Southern mother. Both she and her mother used the same differentiation. Tom Fox
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:16:17 +0000 From: "mr.c" <cking43(at)netwiz.net> Subject: Re: CHAT: virus/worm This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE5B30.1ADCFA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sirs and Madams, Happy 99 came to me as an attachment. My system is safe though. I'm = lucky as a gaslight newbie that I'm too busy to read my own snail mail = let alone my email for days at a time. Regards to all from Lurkdom. cking cking43(at)netwiz.net=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE5B30.1ADCFA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sirs and Madams,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Happy 99 came to me as an = attachment. My system=20 is safe though. I'm lucky as a gaslight newbie that I'm too busy to read = my own=20 snail mail let alone my email for days at a time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Regards to all from = Lurkdom.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT = size=3D2>cking</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"mailto:cking43(at)netwiz.net">cking43(at)netwiz.net</A>=20 </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE5B30.1ADCFA40--
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:28:58 -0600 From: Ann Hilgeman <eahilg(at)seark.net> Subject: Re: CHAT: virus/worm Stephen, I got it as an attachment, but fortunately, I was reading my email in reverse order, and read the warnings before I got to that post, so I just deleted it unopened. Ann Hilgeman
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:45:37 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: Re: "Amore Dure" and over-detailing elsewhere In this connection, Bob Champ wrote: <<I do find the story overwritten, however. I can appreciate Patricia's interest in the artistic descriptions and allusions, but somehow Vernon Lee seems to believe that creating atmosphere demands piling up detail after detail - as if she had come across a guide-book and decided to incorporate it into a story. She chooses, but she chooses everything - which seems to be, from an aesthetic point of view, no choice at all.>> Exactly the same point that I have noticed with many Sherlockian pastiches; they are overloaded with contemporary details of 'setting', presumably with the intention of conveying a sense of the period. Or as it was put elswhere: "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative." (The Mikado). I remember reading this story in my early teens; "Amor dure, dure amor" the phrase still echoes in my mind. Peter Wood
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:55:13 -0500 From: "Roberts, Leonard" <lroberts(at)email.uncc.edu> Subject: RE: "Amore Dure" and over-detailing elsewhere And may I add that Sherlockian (and most ) pastiches are not only overloaded with detail but with celebrities of one type or another. Sherlock Holmes is always meeting someone who is famous now but was relatively or completely unknown at the time. I often suspect that this is because the writer could not think of a good enough plot to carry the story. Whatever Conan Doyle's faults as a writer, he could tell a story without excess detail or referring to the famous. Len Roberts > Exactly the same point that I have noticed with many Sherlockian > pastiches; they are overloaded with contemporary details of 'setting', > presumably with the intention of conveying a sense of the period. Or as it > was put elswhere: "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic > verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative." (The > Mikado). > I remember reading this story in my early teens; "Amor dure, dure amor" > the phrase still echoes in my mind. > Peter Wood
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:48:14 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description I am going on holiday for a week, starting Friday night, and would like to leave this (admittedly off-topic) subject for discussion with Gaslighters. Recently on the <soc.history.what-if> newsgroup there has been a thread entitled "You Know You're in an Alternate Timeline when...". Members have posted their suggestions, which included such intriguing items as "You wonder why the copper coin should feature the head of an undistinguished 19C Senator". To me, this thread has a connection with my remarks and those of Leonard Roberts, Bob Champ and others on the topic of overloading descriptive details in such fiction as Vernon Lee's "Amor Dure". Can Gaslighters cite examples of "telling details" in fiction; items mentioned in passing which give an immediate impression of a place or period? One which sticks in my mind is from the Sherlockian story "The Naval Treaty", where a character remarks: "We rushed along the pavement *bare-headed as we were*" (emphasis mine). Clearly, at this time and in such a place (late Victorian London) one did not go out into the street without a head-covering of some kind, save in a great emergency. Obviously, a story can have too much detail, as we have seen. But how much is enough, and what *kind* of detail is what I term "telling detail"? Opinions, anyone? Peter Wood
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:02:00 -0600 From: Marta Dawes <smdawes(at)home.com> Subject: Re: "Amore Dure" and over-detailing elsewhere Conan Doyle has always been one of my favorite writers, and no one was better able to construct a story. A case in point for me is "Lot 249", my favorite non-Holmes story. The mummy is never shown to the hero as moving in any way, but to us, the reader, it is in constant movement. I could read this story a million times, as I could all of Doyle's efforts. His occult and ghost stories are just superb. Marta "Roberts, Leonard" wrote: > > And may I add that Sherlockian (and most ) pastiches are not only overloaded > with detail but with celebrities of one type or another. Sherlock Holmes is > always meeting someone who is famous now but was relatively or completely > unknown at the time. I often suspect that this is because the writer could > not think of a good enough plot to carry the story. Whatever Conan Doyle's > faults as a writer, he could tell a story without excess detail or referring > to the famous. > > Len Roberts > > > Exactly the same point that I have noticed with many Sherlockian > > pastiches; they are overloaded with contemporary details of 'setting', > > presumably with the intention of conveying a sense of the period. Or as it > > was put elswhere: "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic > > verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative." (The > > Mikado). > > I remember reading this story in my early teens; "Amor dure, dure amor" > > the phrase still echoes in my mind. > > Peter Wood
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:38:24 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: over-detailing elsewhere >> And may I add that Sherlockian (and most ) pastiches are not only overloaded A forgettable story I read recently had the protagonist involved in a mystery with Beatrix Potter. It diminished Beatrix Potter's creativity and wonderful animal inventions by having all these good and bad characters in this murder scenario have the names that would eventually appear in her books (and coincidentally these people looked a lot like the animals she chose to represent them--red whiskers on a badger like guy, etc.). I find this kind of 'detail' demeaning to the real characters and too contrived to make the story enjoyable. You just groan. As you say--Doyle had no need for this. But I am intrigued by Peter's telling details. I remember one of my favorite sections in THE MOONSTONE is the goofy cousin who kept handing out religious tracts to people, particularly the maid servants. "Miss, A Word About Your Cap Ribbons" is certainly telling for me (on the vanity of having too fancy a cap). Is this perhaps what you mean? Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:14:53 -0600 (CST)
From: James Rogers <jetan(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description
At 03:48 PM 2/18/99 -0700, you wrote:
>To me, this thread has a connection with my remarks and those of Leonard
>Roberts, Bob Champ and others on the topic of overloading descriptive
>details in such fiction as Vernon Lee's "Amor Dure". Can Gaslighters cite
>examples of "telling details" in fiction; items mentioned in passing which
>give an immediate impression of a place or period? One which sticks in my
>mind is from the Sherlockian story "The Naval Treaty", where a character
>remarks: "We rushed along the pavement *bare-headed as we were*" (emphasis
>mine). Clearly, at this time and in such a place (late Victorian London)
>one did not go out into the street without a head-covering of some kind,
>save in a great emergency.
>Obviously, a story can have too much detail, as we have seen. But how
>much is enough, and what *kind* of detail is what I term "telling detail"?
>Opinions, anyone?
>Peter Wood
>
Telling detail is, for me, the type of thing that I *could* just gloss
over but that improves the story should one go to the effort to understand
it. For instance, In _Dracula_, Stoker takes pains to include all that
really "cutting edge" turn of the century technology....sound recordings,
typewriters, shorthand dictation, blood transfusions as a means of
emphasizing the medieval nature of his villain. Those who don't realize what
recent innovations those things were at the time don't "get " a portion of
the story. The fact that Mimi understands shorthand and typing also says
somehing about the social change that was about to occur and gives us a
class insight into her that would otherwise be lacking or at least easily
overlooked.
Dickens is another writer for whom the (comtemporary) period details
are fascinating in and of themselves...probably because Dickens was
fascinated by them on his own account and generally found a way to weave
them into the theme of his story, as as the case with the circus performers
in _Hard Times_ or _Old Curiosity Shop_.
James
James Michael Rogers
jetan(at)ionet.net
Mundus Vult Decipi
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:07 -0500 From: lpv1(at)is2.nyu.edu Subject: Re: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description For me, telling details eventually build a 3d scenario and cocoon me in the scene. Once I have so been enveloped, I can concentrate on the plot and the character. I seldom feel that details are intrusive, especially in the first person narrative. They tell me something about the character, if not the writer. Upon rereading the Amour Dure, I realize why it is that I liked it. I thought it was funny and I don't know whether the author meant it to be funny. Yes, I did find the voice a bit strident and driving, as if the author wrote it all down in one sitting the way the character told it. But I did laugh out loud in a couple of places, especially about the way to ensure winning the lottery -- Spiridion gets his licks in at academicians Frankly, I wondered if this were a contemporary writer who was having his/her bit of fun with us. luciepaula At 07:14 PM 2/18/99 -0600, you wrote: >At 03:48 PM 2/18/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>To me, this thread has a connection with my remarks and those of Leonard >>Roberts, Bob Champ and others on the topic of overloading descriptive >>details in such fiction as Vernon Lee's "Amor Dure". Can Gaslighters cite >>examples of "telling details" in fiction; items mentioned in passing which >>give an immediate impression of a place or period? One which sticks in my >>mind is from the Sherlockian story "The Naval Treaty", where a character >>remarks: "We rushed along the pavement *bare-headed as we were*" (emphasis >>mine). Clearly, at this time and in such a place (late Victorian London) >>one did not go out into the street without a head-covering of some kind, >>save in a great emergency. >>Obviously, a story can have too much detail, as we have seen. But how >>much is enough, and what *kind* of detail is what I term "telling detail"? >>Opinions, anyone? >>Peter Wood >> > > Telling detail is, for me, the type of thing that I *could* just gloss >over but that improves the story should one go to the effort to understand >it. For instance, In _Dracula_, Stoker takes pains to include all that >really "cutting edge" turn of the century technology....sound recordings, >typewriters, shorthand dictation, blood transfusions as a means of >emphasizing the medieval nature of his villain. Those who don't realize what >recent innovations those things were at the time don't "get " a portion of >the story. The fact that Mimi understands shorthand and typing also says >somehing about the social change that was about to occur and gives us a >class insight into her that would otherwise be lacking or at least easily >overlooked. > Dickens is another writer for whom the (comtemporary) period details >are fascinating in and of themselves...probably because Dickens was >fascinated by them on his own account and generally found a way to weave >them into the theme of his story, as as the case with the circus performers >in _Hard Times_ or _Old Curiosity Shop_. > > James >James Michael Rogers >jetan(at)ionet.net >Mundus Vult Decipi >
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:07:34 -0500 From: "James E. Kearman" <jkearman(at)gate.net> Subject: Chat: Worms and Anarchists Yesterday's worm attack on our mailing list got me thinking about historical precedents for the people who create destructive computer programs and anonymously unleash them on the Internet. What mischief would such a person have done in the Gaslight period? One example who comes to mind is the Professor, in Conrad's 'The Secret Agent.' He gave his explosive devices to anyone who asked, with no regard to their ultimate use. What are other examples of creative genius turned to unfocused destruction in our period? Cheers, Jim - ------------------------------------- James E. Kearman mailto:jkearman(at)iname.com http://www.gate.net/~jkearman Between what I see and what I say Between what I say and what I keep silent Between what I keep silent and what I dream Between what I dream and what I forget: Poetry. Octavio Paz ?
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:28:48 -0500 From: "James E. Kearman" <jkearman(at)gate.net> Subject: RE: CHAT: Telling details versus over-description I think telling details, like dialogue rendered in dialect, are best used at the beginning of a story to set the scene and sketch the characters. After that, other details can be applied sparingly, to reinforce the scene in the reader's mind or to provide a segue between episodes. Used throughout a story they tend to take over and obscure the story, rather than abet it. Modern jazz and abstract art are other examples: Give enough to get the reader/listener/viewer's mind focused, and let the mind render further details when required. Properly done in literature, this allows a reader to have her own experience of the story, which may vary greatly from the author's vision. Overdone, it forces every reader to have the same experience as the author, and thus limits the reader's pleasure by constricting her thoughts, which may be going in a different direction. Literature as an open car, not one with the windows rolled up and the air conditioner running. You can see the progression of a creative person's ability by noting how much he leaves out of later works. One of my favorite contemporary examples is the rock guitarist Mark Knopfler. In his earlier work his (admittedly virtuosic) playing was all over the songs; in later works he implies themes with simple flourishes, leaving the listener to complete the phrases. This willingness to simplify probably comes with experience and heightened self confidence. Cheers, Jim - ------------------------------------- James E. Kearman mailto:jkearman(at)iname.com http://www.gate.net/~jkearman Between what I see and what I say Between what I say and what I keep silent Between what I keep silent and what I dream Between what I dream and what I forget: Poetry. Octavio Paz ?
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:40:39 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Chat: Worms and Anarchists On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, James E. Kearman wrote: > Yesterday's worm attack on our mailing list got me thinking about historical > precedents for the people who create destructive computer programs and > anonymously unleash them on the Internet. What mischief would such a person > have done in the Gaslight period? > One example who comes to mind is the Professor, in Conrad's 'The Secret > Agent.' He gave his explosive devices to anyone who asked, with no regard to > their ultimate use. What are other examples of creative genius turned to > unfocused destruction in our period Two relevant quotations: "But when to mischief mortals bend their will . How soon they find fit instruments of ill" (Alexander Pope) and: "How oft the sight of means to do ill deeds Makes ill deeds done" (Shakespeare, King John) Which, being interpreted, signifies that in my opinion, anything can be misused or turned to evil purposes. What I find interesting is why someone should develop a computer virus (worm, Trojan Horse whatever) - and then release it onto the general public? Obviously such devices have immeasurable miltary value in a time when all weapons of mass-destruction are computer-controlled. Thus there is a ready market for them, and there are rewards for their inventors. It may be that we on Gaslight are just part of a "field-test" in the same way that the inhabitants of Winnipeg (and, I believe, New York) were part of a bacteriological warfare field-test some thirty years ago. Or the device may have been used as an instrument of revenge by someone who has had their account cancelled by a newsgroup for reasons they consider unjustified. It may well not have been Gaslight. There is no reason why it should have been. There are many people who agree with the 19th-century French anarchist, accusing of "hazarding the lives of innocent bystanders". His reply rings ever in my ears: "There *are* no innocent bystanders!" In an age when the virtues and need for universal brotherhood are preached incessantly and widely, it might be as well to recall the law of the blood feud: "Any member of the perpetrator's family can be held responsible for their act" Or, as the Nazi justice system termed it "Sippenhaft". There are those alive today whose relatives were executed under this law. Those who develop and release computer viruses may feel they have a case to argue; that we do not accept it does not concern them. Peter Wood
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:51:33 -0500 From: Linda Anderson <lpa1(at)ptdprolog.net> Subject: Re: silver ware vs. silverware At 01:23 PM 02/18/1999 -0500, you wrote: >I was raised by a very Southern mother. Both she and her mother used the same >differentiation. > >Tom Fox > > Tom: Does that mean you agree with me (the two are different) or that they are one and the same thing (whichever one that is)? Linda Anderson ------------------------------ End of Gaslight Digest V1 #45 *****************************