Gaslight Digest Tuesday, October 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 012
In this issue:
Re: Old movie
Chat: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol -- skeletons
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol -- skeletons
Midnight Club tale number one
Re: Today in History - Oct. 26
Re: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol -- skeletons
H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Non-Holmes Stories
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
WWW etext avail: Lovecraft's "Supernatural horror in literature"
Re: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:23:53 -0800
From: James Michael Rogers <jetan(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Old movie
>
>
> Pop quiz: Which H. R. Wakefield story is most like
> "The Casting of the Runes"?
> Extra credit: Which artist associated with "Weird Tales"
> illustrated the story for August Derleth?
>
> John Squires
My * guess* would be "The Thirteenth Hole At
Duncaster" and for the artist, the great Lee Brown Coye.
James
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:37:20 -0700
From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org>
Subject: Chat: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol
>>> "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> 10/26 11:57 AM >>>
> Saturday night we had one of
> those near-perfect evenings with a big bonfire, bourbon and covered
dishes
> on the tailgate of my pickup truck, ...
I assume you took care that none of the bonfire on the tailgate got into
the gas tank. &8-{)
Jerry
gmc(at)libra.pvh.org
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:30:26 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol Richard writes: <<Well, of course the pumpkin comes immediately to mind, but I would have to say fire is the major autumn symbol for me. >>> That's a great autumn symbol. I also can't help but think of summer solstice as well...about fifteen years ago, while I was traveling through southern Germany, I stayed in a small village in the mountains on summer solstice. That evening, after the cows had made their way home through the village streets, the villagers gathered on the mountain sides, and once darkness fell, bonfires sprang up, scattered along the mountain side. At the time, I merely watched from a far, but now I regret not learning more about the event, and perhaps even joining the procession. Again he writes: <<Saturday night we had one of those near-perfect evenings with a big bonfire, bourbon and covered dishes on the tailgate of my pickup truck, and friends over on an evening crisp and dark enough to make the fire compelling, and...live music! It was an Irish night ...>>> Sheesh! And we weren't invited? Bonfire, bourbon, potluck and fiddles...what an evening! <<<...darn if those strange fiddle and whistle tunes dancing in the firelight didn't conjure up some deeply-buried segment of my genetic code as we gathered close to the fire under occasional shooting stars. >> There is something very primal about Celtic music which sings to a soul; while I love the fiddle and whistle, the bagpipe is my favorite raise-the-hairs-on-your- neck instrument. Happy Hallowe'en, Patricia
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:59:19 -0600 (CST) From: brentb(at)webtv.net (Brent Barber) Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol - --WebTV-Mail-434892281-660 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Autumn leaves, turning red and gold, the icy feeling in the air, the spooky darkness that overcomes the soul. The black cat, the window slightly open revealing a pumpkin carving grinning. The smoke upon the wind, the errie lost night. When rain has hung the leaves with tears. In an icy town, I creep towards the gates, where I was born. http://members.theglobe.com/brentb/1901/ps.html - --WebTV-Mail-434892281-660 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.92]) by postoffice-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) with ESMTP id MAA18566; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:43:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.mtroyal.ab.ca (mail.mtroyal.ab.ca [142.109.10.22]) by mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id MAA27724; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from www2.mtroyal.ab.ca (ns.mtroyal.ab.ca) by mailgate.mtroyal.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3151) with ESMTP id <0F1G00234C3YLM(at)mailgate.mtroyal.ab.ca> for brentb(at)webtv.net; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:40:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root(at)localhost) by www2.mtroyal.ab.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA01695 for gaslight-list; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:40:46 -0700 Received: from mailgate.mtroyal.ab.ca (mail.mtroyal.ab.ca [142.109.10.22]) by www2.mtroyal.ab.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01692 for <gaslight(at)www2.mtroyal.ab.ca>; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:40:45 -0700 Received: from getty.edu (gateway.pub.getty.edu) by mailgate.mtroyal.ab.ca (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3151) with SMTP id <0F1G00229C35LM(at)mailgate.mtroyal.ab.ca> for gaslight(at)www2.mtroyal.ab.ca; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:40:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from Getty-Message_Server by getty.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:30:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:30:26 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol Sender: owner-gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA To: Gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA Reply-to: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA Message-id: <s6345d60.092(at)getty.edu> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Precedence: bulk Richard writes: <<Well, of course the pumpkin comes immediately to mind, but I would have to say fire is the major autumn symbol for me. >>> That's a great autumn symbol. I also can't help but think of summer solstice as well...about fifteen years ago, while I was traveling through southern Germany, I stayed in a small village in the mountains on summer solstice. That evening, after the cows had made their way home through the village streets, the villagers gathered on the mountain sides, and once darkness fell, bonfires sprang up, scattered along the mountain side. At the time, I merely watched from a far, but now I regret not learning more about the event, and perhaps even joining the procession. Again he writes: <<Saturday night we had one of those near-perfect evenings with a big bonfire, bourbon and covered dishes on the tailgate of my pickup truck, and friends over on an evening crisp and dark enough to make the fire compelling, and...live music! It was an Irish night ...>>> Sheesh! And we weren't invited? Bonfire, bourbon, potluck and fiddles...what an evening! <<<...darn if those strange fiddle and whistle tunes dancing in the firelight didn't conjure up some deeply-buried segment of my genetic code as we gathered close to the fire under occasional shooting stars. >> There is something very primal about Celtic music which sings to a soul; while I love the fiddle and whistle, the bagpipe is my favorite raise-the-hairs-on-your- neck instrument. Happy Hallowe'en, Patricia - --WebTV-Mail-434892281-660--
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:05:17 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol -- skeletons Tom writes: <<I would have to cast my vote for a skeleton. I like two colors, black or white and when I see one hanging from a tree or a front door it takes me back to my childhood when such symbols seemed to matter a great deal more.>>> I forgot all about skeletons. Today, I associate the skeleton more with the Day of the Dead (Los Dias de los Muertos) celebrations; sculpture which includes skeletons driving cars, dancing, playing instruments, etc; I'd all but forgotten the paper skeleton, bendable at all the joints which gave us all a jolt when we were children. Patricia (p.s. Deborah, do you have ghost.exe for your computer? A click and drag to your desktop toy, with flying ghosts? Lots of fun! If you don't have it, let me know.)
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:18:20 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol >the villagers gathered on the mountain sides, and once darkness fell, >bonfires sprang up, scattered along the mountain side. At the time, I merely >watched from afar, but now I regret not learning more about the event, and >perhaps even joining the procession. I think there is a Robert Howard story about someone coming upon some German town, like Stregoicavar (ominous sounding) and some strange rites that likely wouldn't have been healthy to join? Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:21:22 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol -- skeletons >I associate the skeleton more with the Day of the Dead (Los Dias de los >Muertos) Here in Arizona this is the case, too. I separate ghosts for Hallowe'en and skeletons for Dia de los Muertos (at my gallery now we have one room dedicated as a shrine--ongoing, being added to all along) to both Hallowe'en and Dias de los Muertos. Right now DDLM is winning over HW so I'm trying to get a few more jackolanterns down to sit the with skeletons! >(p.s. Deborah, do you have ghost.exe for your computer? A click >and drag to your desktop toy, with flying ghosts? NO!--what is it? Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:55:19 -0500 From: "S.T. Karnick" <skarnick(at)INDY.NET> Subject: Midnight Club tale number one Very amusing story. The editor -- Bob Birchard, I presume -- states that it is not clear whether the tale is "historic or fanciful," but if the actual events and characters are fictional, certainly the events narrated are true to life. Those who have seen some of the nonfiction on the Gaslight site regarding how phony supernaturalists do their tricks will find this material very familiar indeed. It appears that Van Loan's research was right on the mark. Interestingly, although there are new twists and new technologies, the most common forms of stage mentalism still use variations of these techniques. The characters in the story are amusing, though one would have liked to get to know a bit more about Simmons and see him in action a bit more. The raffishness of the narrator is quite pleasing and adds a note of unpredictability to the narrative. Interestingly, it was clear, when the toughs stole the envelopes, exactly what the mentalist would do in response, but the violence of his reaction was somewhat of a surprise. The tale is well worth reading, and I hope that we will get to see more of these. Best w's, S.T. Karnick
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:32:18 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Today in History - Oct. 26 Also born today... 1902 - Beryl Markham, aviatrix, author, adventurer 1911 - Mahalia Jackson, gospel singer smiling phoebe
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:50:05 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol -- skeletons I like the bats. Super creatures. Mysterious. Soft and pliable. Mammals that fly! They lived between worlds. thinking I would like to do that, phoebe Happy Hallowe'en to all.
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:19:15 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion Stephen writes: <<The reading for this week, which is already upon us, will be H.P. Lovecraft's "Supernatural horror in literature", an essay last revised in 1937. This will make its appearance shortly, but we can begin discussing it right away.>> I only now saw the tail end of Stephen's earlier message which announced next week's reading by Charles E. Van Loan..... Any Lovecraft fans out there? (What a silly question!) What two or three Lovecraft tales would you recommend to a person who has never read Lovecraft? I just found a cache of Lovecraft on the web at: http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/fiction/ Patricia
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:43:19 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion >Any Lovecraft fans out there? (What a silly question!) >What two or three Lovecraft tales would you recommend to >a person who has never read Lovecraft? My all out favorite story by Lovecraft is SHADOW OUT OF TIME. This almost falls into the category of scifi, but it's true Lovecraft. The sense of time, of eons, which is really wonderful in contemplating the secrets of our earth, is only equalled by MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS, which I also adore. This has an end that will just make you scream if you ever have to use the subways (no, Patricia, it's actually not something that is IN the subways--it's a wonderful allusion that he uses). Then I think for pure scares I'd go with COLOR OUT OF SPACE. This one always makes me kind of scream when I see weird colored lights. Lovecraft goes from pure Poe-esque horror, to scifi kind horror, to the Dunsanian fantasy. It is actually the latter that I personally care the least for though I know some people really do like it. You've opened a real door here in personal taste. I know some people think Lovecraft is overblown or too florid in his wordage but personally I love the constant use of the word eldritch and find few of his imitators ever up to his standards in sheer scare staying power. The CALL OF CTHULHU also gets points for originality in mythology and just being scary, too. But I guess I just like that sense of age that SHADOW OUT OF TIME gives. Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:07:48 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion Patricia Teter asked, inter alia: <<What two or three Lovecraft tales would you recommend to a person who has never read Lovecraft?>> I would say in reply that there are only two or three of HPL's stories I would recommend to *anyone* who cared about writing style and ability to put together well-crafted English sentences which are not swamped in adjectives. These would be "The Rats in the Walls"(1923), "The Haunter of the Dark"(1935) and "The Call of Cthulhu"(1926), the first and last of which are in Wise and Wagner's "Great Tales of Terror and the Supernatural", and even these are often floridly overwritten. As a backup (or "first reserve", in deference to HPL's Anglophilia), I would add "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" which is a well-plotted "flight and escape" tale, but the reason for the hero's deadly peril could be anything, and not essentially something from HPL's own private universe of horrors. His early illness and death were a great tragedy - HPL was born some twenty years before his time. With the science-fiction boom of the post-1950 years to provide publication opportunities, editors such as Horace Gold, Frederick Pohl, and many other others to guide him and improve his style, and the post-war advances in medical science to cure or at least successfully his medical condition, his undoubted creative power as a writer could have given him a long and productive career. But it was not to be. I was reading "Supernatural Horror in Literature" only last weekend, and noticed that he ranked Conan Doyle amongst his great writers of horror stories, and for that I can forgive him much; as a token of which, I will add "Pickman's Model" to my list. Peter Wood
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:21:54 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion Thanks to Deborah McM-N. and Peter W. for their Lovecraft recommendations and comments. I'll give a few stories a try and let you know; I've been reading a large number of Doyle's horror and weird stories, so the comparison will be very interesting. Patricia
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:39:40 -0500 From: bluepencil <bluepencil(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Non-Holmes Stories An unusual starting point for the non-Holmes stories by Arthur Conan Doyle would be the 1982 Doubleday collection THE UNKNOWN CONAN DOYLE: Uncollected Stories by Arthur Conan Doyle. This book brought together for the first time many of the previously uncollected stories by Doyle, some of them recognized for the first time as having by authored by Doyle. There is also a six-volume collection published by Garden City (1937) entitled THE WORKS OF ARTHUR CONAN DOYLE which assembled most of the Doyle stories. Other anthologies have been collected more recently under various titles. I recently saw one at Barnes & Nobles published in 1998. For this sort of thing I believe the best bet would be to do a search using only "Arthur Conan Doyle" as the author keyword at one of the used-book machines, be it http://www.mxbf.com or http://www.bibliofind.com. You may have to wade through a lot of Holmes collections but you'll also discover some harder-to-find items. Used bookstores also carry many of these collections at very affordable prices, if that is an option. And then again, there is always the old reliable http://www.amazon.com. As for bibliographies, I believe there are several pages dedicated to Doyle and/or Sherlock Holmes on the Web. Any regular search engine using the keywords "Arthur Conan Doyle" in quotations should readily access these pages. Happy hunting! Robert G.
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:44:32 -0500 From: "Kevin J. Clement" <clementk(at)alink.com> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion Patricia Teter wrote: > I only now saw the tail end of Stephen's earlier message > which announced next week's reading by Charles E. Van > Loan..... > > Any Lovecraft fans out there? (What a silly question!) > What two or three Lovecraft tales would you recommend to > a person who has never read Lovecraft? I just found a cache > of Lovecraft on the web at: > > http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/fiction/ > > Patricia Argh, hope I'm not too late. Out of tales that have TEXT next to them on the above page, I'd recommend: The Statement of Randolph Carter, a nice little story about visiting a cemetery that shouldn't be disturbed The Cats of Ulthar, if you like cats; set in HPL's Dreamlands, a neo-Dunsanian tale The Outsider, Poe-like has a nice twist, often anthologized Ok, he's not Hemmingway when it comes to adjectives ;P The view of HPL via Derleth and L. Sprague de Camp unfortunately lingers on. :-( (Praise R'yleh for Joshi's new bio!) If you find you like him enough to try a book: Avoid the cheap DelRey paperbacks. The TPB Del Rey's like The Dream Cycle of H.P. Lovecraft (if you like Dunsany) or The Annoted H.P. Lovecraft are good introductions. Arkham House still puts out the best versions of HPL. Chaosium has 13+ themed collections that include similar authors, influential tales and are quite nice. I'd also check out some of his letters. In many ways they are more interesting than his fiction. see: http//www.hplovecraft.com/writings/letters/ The man was born a century or two too late. He also had a really weird use of language. I've been going backwards in fiction. HPL was a great stepping stone into the past. I'd never have read any Dunsany, Hodgeson, Machen, Blackwood, etc. if not for my introduction to HPL. (spurred by my Mom's interest in Poe along with spotting Call of Cthulhu in a comic shop) Yes I'm *really* in a Halloween mode now... Kevin J. Clement gibbering-ghoul(at)juno.com
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:07:29 -0500 From: "Kevin J. Clement" <clementk(at)alink.com> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol Deborah McMillion Nering wrote: > > >the villagers gathered on the mountain sides, and once darkness fell, > >bonfires sprang up, scattered along the mountain side. At the time, I merely > >watched from afar, but now I regret not learning more about the event, and > >perhaps even joining the procession. > > I think there is a Robert Howard story about someone coming upon some > German town, like Stregoicavar (ominous sounding) and some strange rites > that likely wouldn't have been healthy to join? > > Deborah > > Deborah McMillion > deborah(at)gloaming.com > http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html The Black Stone or The Children of the Night? Read it in Cthulhu : The Mythos and Kindred Horrors in the 80's, an ok Baen paperback. *Really* don't think you'd want to join the rites. Main interest now in the story is REH's contribution to grimories of the Mythos, Nameless Cults by Von Junzt (story might be in one of the newer Howard collections) http://www.baen.com/catalog/rehoward.htm BTW, my favorite Halloween symbol is the trees and all the leaves on the ground. Such color and such sounds as I tramp through a forest. Also huge bonfires and Celtic music. (McKennit/Altan/etc.)
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:20:07 -0500
From: JDS Books <jdsbooks(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
Patricia,
I concur with the previous recommendations by Deborah &
Peter, but have a fondness too for one of his minor stories,
"The Hound". One of my first introductions to HPL was
through Roddy McDowell's recording of "The Hound" &
"The Outsider". His renditions still echo in my mind when I
think of Lovecraft.
Best,
John Squires
- -----Original Message-----
From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu>
To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA <gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA>
Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
>Thanks to Deborah McM-N. and Peter W. for their
>Lovecraft recommendations and comments. I'll give
>a few stories a try and let you know; I've been reading
>a large number of Doyle's horror and weird stories, so the
>comparison will be very interesting.
>
>Patricia
>
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:29:26 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion I find John Squires' posting interesting, because to me it raises the following question: "If one's liking for author X follows from hearing a reading of X's work by Y, or seeing a film or TV production starring Z (and A and B etc. etc.), is the interest and liking for X, or is it really for Y (or Z)?" As a case in point, consider the following T-shirt slogan which I saw at a literary society meeting: "I LIKED JANE AUSTEN BEFORE THEY MADE THE TV MINI-SERIES" So, is one mark of a great, or even a good, author that their works need no interpretation to be immediately liked and considered worth reading? "Good wine," goes the proverb, "needs no bush" (for a green bush was the sign of a wine-shop). Are HPL's works strong enough to stand on their own, and not require interpretation by another performer to have a major impact? I would think not (cf. my previous posting), but others may disagree. I would be interested to read their views. Peter Wood On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, JDS Books wrote: > Patricia, > I concur with the previous recommendations by Deborah & > Peter, but have a fondness too for one of his minor stories, > "The Hound". One of my first introductions to HPL was > through Roddy McDowell's recording of "The Hound" & > "The Outsider". His renditions still echo in my mind when I > think of Lovecraft. > Best, > John Squires
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:01:16 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion Gaslighters may be interested to know that there is currently a most interesting in-depth discussion of influences on HPL running under the thread "Tolkien, Lovecraft, Derleth" on the newsgroup <alt.horror.cthulhu> Despite the name, this group always has intersting threads for HPL fans, and is well worth looking at for references to HPL topics (including some excellent notes by Mr. Donovan Loucks for those who intend to visit the Lovecraft district of New England). Peter Wood
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:02:01 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol >The Black Stone... *Really* don't think you'd want to join the rites. Thank you--couldn't remember, kept thinking monolith...monolith...no, megalith? Trees and leaves--one I hadn't thought of either. Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 01:39:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, p.h.wood wrote:
> "If one's liking for author X follows from hearing a reading of X's work
> by Y, or seeing a film or TV production starring Z (and A and B etc.
> etc.), is the interest and liking for X, or is it really for Y (or Z)?"
> As a case in point, consider the following T-shirt slogan which I saw at
a
> literary society meeting:
> "I LIKED JANE AUSTEN BEFORE THEY MADE THE TV MINI-SERIES"
> So, is one mark of a great, or even a good, author that their works need
> no interpretation to be immediately liked and considered worth reading?
> "Good wine," goes the proverb, "needs no bush" (for a green bush was the
I haven't read enough Lovecraft to comment about him particularly, though
what I've read I like. But this is an interesting question Peter has
raised. I know that certain film have colored my views of characters
before I read the books that spawned them. For instance, my impression of
Aunt Betsy Trotwood in _David Copperfield_ was very much formed by the
performance of Edna Mae Oliver as that character. And I must admit that,
while reading the book, I invariably saw Basil Rathbone as Mr. Murdstone.
Whether this is a negative or a positive, I'm not quite sure. Did
Hollywood so fit the actors to the characters that it seemed these were
roles they were born to play, or did it rob me of my own imaginative
experience of Dickens's novel?
It is interesting which writers transfer well to film and which don't. I
have never really seen a faithful and first-rate production of a Mark
Twain novel, for instance, whereas the films of Henry James novels I have
seen work very well. How odd that the most popular novelist America has
produced would fail to find a home in the cinema and yet one of the
difficult should succeed. Sometimes it is also a matter of which book
by a writer one is thinking of. Thus, though I've liked one or two of the
versions of Stevenson's "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde," no film of "Treasure
Island" that I have seen has impressed me.
Very often I think it is a matter of an author's personality. If it is
overwhelmingly present in his book--as in the case of Twain--a film won't
likely do the book justice: the unmistakable voice that is at the book's
very core is gone, cannot be reproduced on film or stage. A book in which
the personality of the writer is not so large an element, on the other
hand, is more likely to succeed in the "translation." Sometimes, too, a
writer can seem very cinematic in his prose, creating the most vivid
mental pictures imaginable, and yet have none of his books come off well
when given a cinematic treatment (ensuring that there will be very few
attempts to film his work): Faulkner comes to mind here. It is almost as
if the novelist has usurped the film-maker's visual domain.
Of course, every work of art must stand alone on its own merits, and some
obviously will not be liked immediately: one has to grow into them (or
grow up to them, as the case may be). But in the very best books and
films we see complements. I'm sure that Aunt Betsy Trotwood as Dickens
created her is every bit the equal of Ms. Oliver's film portrayal of her.
People admired Aunt Betsy long before the film, and interchanging the two
has never cost me, at least, a moment's less delight.
I don't know if I've come anywhere near answering Peter's question, but
these are some of the book/cinema quandaries that have always intrigued
me.
Bob C
_________________________________________________
(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
One ought, every day at least, to hear a little
song, read a good poem, see a fine picture, and,
if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words."
--Goethe
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:00:28 -0500
From: "Kevin J. Clement" <clementk(at)alink.com>
Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion
>I find John Squires' posting interesting, because to me it raises the
>following question:
>"If one's liking for author X follows from hearing a reading of X's work
>by Y, or seeing a film or TV production starring Z (and A and B etc.
>etc.), is the interest and liking for X, or is it really for Y (or Z)?"
>As a case in point, consider the following T-shirt slogan which I saw at a
>literary society meeting:
> "I LIKED JANE AUSTEN BEFORE THEY MADE THE TV MINI-SERIES"
guilty of having watched more Austen movies than stories read (they're
on the list honest; I like fine acting & scenery too...)
"I sold my soul to Cthulhu before he got elected President!" ;P
>So, is one mark of a great, or even a good, author that their works need
>no interpretation to be immediately liked and considered worth reading?
>"Good wine," goes the proverb, "needs no bush" (for a green bush was the
>sign of a wine-shop). Are HPL's works strong enough to stand on their own,
>and not require interpretation by another performer to have a major
impact?
>I would think not (cf. my previous posting), but others may disagree. I
>would be interested to read their views.
>Peter Wood
Deep breath...Eldar Signs scattered about the computer...
Ok, lets see how many HPL movies have been made...about 10-12 most so
obscure
and/or so far removed that the chances of a person watching the movie and
reading HPL are next to nil. I'd wager most people who watch a movie
inspired by HPL are probably avid readers of HPL. (and *none* of the movies
have come close nor mention HPL except a new one that I've not yet been
able
to order from Mythos Books) And the day I see a Cthulhu mini-series on tv
I'll
pack my bags and move to Kadath. The end of the world will truely be near.
In today's world, if someone happens to catch a movie based on an author's
work and starts reading works by the author I'd say that's fine. The person
probably would've never read anything by that author otherwise. ('course
what type of person this might be...) Should an author pine for movie
adaptations to get recognized? Lord no, but the more mediums, the more
attention. note: I don't think this should be an author's main goal (
though there are plently like this)
So has HPL had a major impact? And how was this accomplished? I'd say
word of mouth, influence among other authors, and the RPGs, board games,
and card games. Granted there is that one rock group now that combines
HPL and a good dose of humor but how many people have heard of them?
(again they're probably HPL fans already)
Impact: critical acclaim, influence in other writers, popular success,
what?
Interpretation: critical review, pastiche, movie, play, music, game?
People had to hear about Jane Austen somehow to be interested enough to
read
her works. The act of learning about an author or a work involves some
interpretation of the work/author to a form that the potential reader will
understand and spark interest. Whether it's word of mouth or watching a
movie...
Ok, I'll probably think of Emma Thompson and Kate Beckinsale when i finally
get
to reading more Jane Austen thus weakening the reading. My imagination
won't
get
stretched as much as might have. (at)#($*&( Hollywood & the Beeb! My Aunt was
right.
Read the book first! ALWAYS. IMO most movie adaptations aren't are good.
It's the
visual vs. character development. But watching Emma Thompson is a great
role
is
almost worth the cost. (that and seeing wotsername from Titanic almost DIE
/^o^/ )
I can just see a Nyrlathetop (intentionally misspelled to
prevent accidental summonings via email) Opera now...what performer or
interpretation of *any* major HPL creation might you be thinking of?
Now I can go to sleep. It's too close to Halloween. Thanks for opening up a
great topic.
In cthuloid dreams, }-[
Kevin Clement
thanks for the newsgroup hint, I'm normally loathe to read usenet anymore
or
get a decent newsreader
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:23:54 -0500 From: "Kevin J. Clement" <clementk(at)alink.com> Subject: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol >>The Black Stone... *Really* don't think you'd want to join the rites. > >Thank you--couldn't remember, kept thinking monolith...monolith...no, >megalith? > >Trees and leaves--one I hadn't thought of either. > >Deborah > >Deborah McMillion >deborah(at)gloaming.com >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html I just mowed a whole yard full of leaves and will have to finish raking them up tommorow. Should help start a wonderful bonfire. My family's tended to be more of the toasting marshmallows and hot dog kind than honoring The Goddess. (though it does in a way...) My memory can be a lot like a HTML index or a c program. Lotsa pointers to where I can find what I'm looking for. (hopefully) Kevin Clement clementk(at)alink.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:56:45 -0900 From: Robert Raven <rraven(at)alaska.net> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion Patricia, Thanks for the website tip. A less famous Lovecraft story I quite like, in part because it's outside the Cthulhu Mythos (I like those, too, but I also like the offbeat) is In the Walls of Eryx. Bob Raven
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 01:55:30 -0700
From: sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA
Subject: WWW etext avail: Lovecraft's "Supernatural horror in literature"
(SUPERHOR.HTM) (Fiction, Chronos, Scheds)
H.P. Lovecraft's "Supernatural horror in literature" (1927, 1933 - 1935)
This week's writing for discussion is Lovecraft's essay and
catalogue of the horror-story. It may give more spoilers than
people like, but it is an extremely interesting comparison of
authors by a well-read master of the genre.
A plain ASCII version will follow as soon as the College's website
wakes up again.
Visit the Gaslight website at:
http://www.mtroyal.ab.ca/gaslight/superhor.htm
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:29:30 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Hallowe'en Symbol Well, didn't think of myself as a person who took things literally -- but Patricia T said "Hallowe'en" and I thought of bats. But most of you on the list are talking about symbols of autumn, aren't you. For me, as a New Englander, that has to be watching the trees. The birches seem to turn overnight. Green one day and chrome yellow the next. The oak in my backyard takes a long time to go scarlet. The sugar maple I can see as I write this is very lazy this year, still mostly green with just the hint of orange appearing at the top extremities of limbs. But -- more than that and complementing this annual transformation -- the autumn wonder to me is the way the sun slants down on us. It seems to become softer in the fall. It illuminates the coloring trees as if from within, so that they don't reflect it so much as absorb and glow it out at us. So far his has been a beautiful fall. Day after day of glorious blue sky and clouds Constable would have painted. There is an ominous whispering among us that maybe we're being softened up for a hard winter. We're overdue for one of those. But for now -- this is a wondrous time here. Wish you all could see it. smiling phoebe
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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:31:54 -0500 From: "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> Subject: Re: H.P. Lovecraft's essay for discussion I think my first introduction to Lovecraft was when I heard "The Outsider" read on a public radio program around 1980. I've gone on to read many more of his stories (as well as the ill-viewed de Camp biography--I need to find the Joshi one mentioned by Kevin Clement) but nothing of Lovecraft's has yet measured up to "The Outsider" and its atmosphere of controlled doom. Make this one your very first, Patricia. Richard King rking(at)indian.vinu.edu
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End of Gaslight Digest V1 #12 *****************************