In this issue: Re: Re: quote question Re: quote question More on Will Rogers Today in History - Nov. 4 ghost in the machine Re: quote question Re: quote question Re: Arno Press Re: Arno Press Re: Libraries Re: Libraries Today in History - Nov. 5 RE: Libraries Re: Libraries Re: quote question Ghost in the Machine (was quote question) Etext avail: P.G. McColl's "The Sting of Conscience" Re: Libraries Etext avail: Van Loan's boxing story; and Australian tramps Re: Libraries Re: Libraries Re: Re: Libraries Re: Libraries Re: Libraries Re: Libraries Today in History - Nov. 6 Re: Libraries -----------------------------THE POSTS----------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:40:47 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Re: quote question Not sting... maybe Descartes? phoebe
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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:39:00 -0500 From: "S.T. Karnick" <skarnick(at)INDY.NET> Subject: Re: quote question It goes back at least to Arthur Koestler. Best w's, S.T. Karnick - -----Original Message----- From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA <gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA> Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:34 AM Subject: Re: quote question >>I believe it's a song title by Sting. Though maybe he got it from >>somewhere else before that. > >It's also an episode title for Xfiles, but yes, I definitely believe it is >from someplace else but I can't find anything. Nothing in Bartletts either. > >Deborah > > > >Deborah McMillion >deborah(at)gloaming.com >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html >
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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:19:55 -0700 From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org> Subject: More on Will Rogers From the Cowles Enthusiast Media website: William Penn Adair Rogers, born on November 4, 1879, on a ranch in Indian Territory (now Oklahoma), was widely loved during the 1920s and 1930s for his gentle humor and homespun philosophies. Part Cherokee Indian, Rogers once told a Boston audience, "My ancestors didn't come over on the Mayflower, but they met the boat." Rogers got his show business start in 1902 doing rope tricks in a Wild West show. He moved on to vaudeville and, by 1916, he was the wisecracking star of Florenz Ziegfeld's "Follies." As a newspaper columnist and book author, Rogers poked fun at important people and events, and he was equally successful as a motion picture actor. Rogers' film credits include _A Connecticut Yankee_ in 1931 and _State Fair_ in 1933. The nation mourned when Will Rogers, along with pilot Wiley Post, were killed in an Alaska plane crash on August 15, 1935.
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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:15:53 -0700 From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org> Subject: Today in History - Nov. 4 1842 Abraham Lincoln marries Mary Todd in Springfield, Ill. 1854 Florence Nightingale and her nurses arrive in the Crimea. 1863 From the main Confederate Army at Chattanooga, Tenn., Lt. Gen. James Longstreet's troops are sent northeast to besiege Knoxville (Jerry Note: Of course, it was Stonewall Jackson that the tour guide at the Confedarte Museum in Knoxville was enamored with.) 1918 Austria signs armistice with Allies. Born on November 4 1879 Will Rogers, American actor and writer who said "I never met a man I didn't like" (Jerry Note: _Mad's Talking Stamps_ paired a US stamp of Rogers and this quote with one of Adolph Hitler; an added balloon had Rogers saying, "On second thought ...") 1916 Walter Cronkite, news anchor.
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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:29:13 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: ghost in the machine Someone on another list offers this... <<Only vain people cite themselves <g> so I won't say that I attributed the quote "The dogma of the Ghost in the machine" in my MSc dissertation to : Ryle, Gilbert 1949. _The Concept of Mind_. I notice that Janice E Dawley mentioned Rene Descartes but I haven't been able to confirm that. Everyone knows of his criticisms of the "mechanistic" or "machine" model of humans ("...a machine made by the Hands of God, which is incomparably better arranged, and adequate to movements more admirable than is any machine of human invention" and lots more) in _Discours..._ but "ghost" (or the French equivalent) just seems such an odd concept for Descartes to use especially when one would have expected him to use "soul". Perhaps Janice can give us a tighter citation?>> smiling, phoebe
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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 17:53:36 -0600 From: smdawes(at)home.com Subject: Re: quote question Yes, it's a quote from Descartes. Marta S.T. Karnick wrote: > > It goes back at least to Arthur Koestler. > > Best w's, > > S.T. Karnick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> > To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA <gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA> > Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: quote question > > >>I believe it's a song title by Sting. Though maybe he got it from > >>somewhere else before that. > > > >It's also an episode title for Xfiles, but yes, I definitely believe it is > >from someplace else but I can't find anything. Nothing in Bartletts > either. > > > >Deborah > > > > > > > >Deborah McMillion > >deborah(at)gloaming.com > >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html > >
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Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:26:23 -0600 From: Marsha Valance <tributefarm(at)MIXCOM.COM> Subject: Re: quote question I believe it's from Decartes--the ghost is the soul or spirit; the machine is the body. Marsha in Milwaukee - ---------- > From: athan chilton <ayc(at)UIUC.EDU> > To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA > Subject: Re: quote question > Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:45 AM > > >Aaargh... my brain will not deliver memory. Where does the phrase "the ghost > >in the machine" come from? Someone (or all of you) must know. > > > >hopefully, > >phoebe > > I believe it's a song title by Sting. Though maybe he got it from > somewhere else before that. > > athan > ayc(at)uiuc.edu > > >
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 01:10:21 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu> Subject: Re: Arno Press On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Robert Raven wrote: > To John & Robert & Brenda & Toni (all of whom responded to my inquiry), > > A big thanks. Sounds like I got incredibly lucky with this one. The > copy I have was in the library discard sale because it had been checked > out all of 3 times, twice in 1987 and once in 1990. Except for a couple > of library stamps and a taped library designation on the spine it's in > near pristine condition. I'll be on the lookout for others of this > publisher's list. > > Bob Raven > Although I'm glad the Arno volume has found a good home with Bob, I must say that this practice of discarding books from a library's collection based on the number of times it has been checked out is reprehensible. The value of a book and the popularity of a book have no necessary relation. And I hate to think that old books are being sold off to make way for new ones, which will probably have less art, less thought, and less heart behind them than the work of our contemporaries. A library is not just a building that holds books; it is a repository of the past, a way into worlds that we will--without the aid of books--never come to know. It is the distillation of our civilization, and the civilizations of others. Librarians should be fighting tooth and nail to save every book in their library's collection; and if some books must go, there should be some criterion of selection other than the number of times a book has been checked out. That is truly vulgar. Bob C. _________________________________________________ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Robert L. Champ rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity Those who are alive receive a mandate from those who are silent forever. They can fulfill their duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely things as they were and by wresting the past from fictions and legends. --Czeslaw Milosz _________________________________________________ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 07:39:20 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: Arno Press >A library is not just a building that holds books; it is a repository of >the past, a way into worlds Frankly, Bob, I've always felt this is true of video stores. I realize though they are a business but it makes me insane to find a really good movie missing from the shelves because it wasn't being checked out that much. Fewer and fewer classics are on the shelves to rent because of this. I tried to rent Bell Book and Candle and all four video places near me that HAD had copies no longer did. Fortunately we have AMC and TCM, etc. but not at hand. For a library to do this is shocking. I can't believe the number of gorgeous old volumes, pictorial covers, etc. of works I've collected over the years that came from libraries. I just purchased a gorgeous one of Poe's poems. The cover is not only pictorial the pen and ink illustrations inside are some I have never seen before. Certainly Poe's work is still available in the library--but not these illustrations. Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:15:49 -0500 From: "S.T. Karnick" <skarnick(at)INDY.NET> Subject: Re: Libraries I agree with Bob's and Deborah's comments. Just yesterday I read an excellent piece by Jaques Barzun (from 1978) about this very subject. Barzun's point was that the 14th-century rediscovery of Chaucer and 19th-century rediscovery of Shakespeare were only possible because books used to last almost indefinitely. As books became cheaper and more popular, two things happened. The use of inexpensive acid-based paper ensured that most books would fall apart after less than a century, and that librarians would feel constrained to discard large numbers of books that future generations might have found well worth reading. Think of having lost Chaucer and Shakespeare forever! Barzun correctly dismissed the technologies as inadequate to the task of preservation. Microfilm and microfiche could physically save the texts, but are exceedingly awkward to use, and they destroy the scholar's greatest tool, the ability to browse a library and find the forgotten worthy volume. (Personal testimony: this is how I discovered Anthony Powell, Max Beerbohm, Robert Benchley, and a number of other worthy authors whose works were not in print at the time.) Barzun also thought the computer,as it then was, quite inadequate to the task. One surmises that he still thinks the same, but I believe strongly that the digital era and the ability to publish books electronically at essentially no cost whatever is already saving much great literature and will do much more if governments do not impede the process unduly. (The recent copyright extension can be seen as a way of preserving literature, by ensuring its profitability, but I have my doubts.) The digital book that will plug into the Internet will certainly not have all the good qualities of its wood-pulp predecessor, and it will not entirely replace it, but it will have advantages of its own, not least of which is the fact that it will make preservation of the one essential element of a book -- the words -- cheap and easy, and will hence make both nonprofit and forprofit book preservation efforts much more feasible. We must embrace all solutions simultaneously, and trust that the combination of these will do what is necessary. Best w's, S.T. Karnick - -----Original Message----- From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA <gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:41 AM Subject: Re: Arno Press > >>A library is not just a building that holds books; it is a repository of >>the past, a way into worlds > >Frankly, Bob, I've always felt this is true of video stores. I realize >though they are a business but it makes me insane to find a really good >movie missing from the shelves because it wasn't being checked out that >much. Fewer and fewer classics are on the shelves to rent because of this. >I tried to rent Bell Book and Candle and all four video places near me that >HAD had copies no longer did. Fortunately we have AMC and TCM, etc. but >not at hand. For a library to do this is shocking. I can't believe the >number of gorgeous old volumes, pictorial covers, etc. of works I've >collected over the years that came from libraries. I just purchased a >gorgeous one of Poe's poems. The cover is not only pictorial the pen and >ink illustrations inside are some I have never seen before. Certainly >Poe's work is still available in the library--but not these illustrations. > >Deborah > >Deborah McMillion >deborah(at)gloaming.com >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html >
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:11:27 -0600 (CST) From: James Rogers <jetan(at)ionet.net> Subject: Re: Libraries At 10:15 AM 11/5/98 -0500, S.T. Karnick wrote: (The recent copyright extension can be seen as a way of preserving >literature, by ensuring its profitability, but I have my doubts.) I think that your doubts are appropriate. The extension wil enhance profits on a very tiny percentage of the covered works.....Mickey Mouse, for instance.....but will likely discourage the inexpensive PD-no-more reprints offered by Dover Books and and Project Gutenberg. It seems clear that this will make quirky books of narrow popular appeal, such as Cozzens's _Castaway_ or Cabell's stuff, even less available than they are today. Project Gutenberg and it's cousins were, for this very reason, among the most passionate opponents of this legislation. James James Michael Rogers jetan(at)ionet.net Mundus Vult Decipi
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:06:59 -0700 From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org> Subject: Today in History - Nov. 5 1814 Having decided to abandon the Niagara frontier, the American army blows up Fort Erie. 1840 Afghanistan surrenders to the British. 1854 British and French defeat the Russians at Inkerman, Crimea. 1862 President Abraham Lincoln relieves General George McClellan of command of the Union armies and names Maj. Gen. Ambrose Burnside commander of the Army of the Potomac. 1872 Susan B. Anthony arrested for trying to vote. 1911 Calbraith P. Rodgers ends first transcontinental flight; 49 days from New York to Pasadena, Calif. 1912 Woodrow Wilson elected 28th president. 1912 Arizona, Wisconsin and Kansas grant women the right to vote. 1914 French and British declare war on Turkey. 1917 General Pershing leads U.S. troops into the first American action against German forces. 1922 King Tut's tomb discovered. (A little out of period, but since we have so many mummy fans ...) Born on November 5 1855 Eugene V. Debs, American socialist leader and first president of the American Railway Union 1913 Vivian Leigh, American actress famous for her role as Scarlet O'Hare in Gone With the Wind
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:37:21 -0600 From: Mattingly Conner <muse(at)iland.net> Subject: RE: Libraries An English friend of mine was comparing the monies in Europe for support of the Arts vs. the funds earmarked in the US for Art. I was ashamed. I don't think it speaks for the people. With heart, Deborah Mattingly Conner muse(at)iland.net http://www.iland.net/~muse So each entered the forest at a point that he, himself, had chosen, where it was darkest and there was no path. ~La Queste del Saint Graal
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:51:21 -0500 From: "S.T. Karnick" <skarnick(at)INDY.NET> Subject: Re: Libraries Deborah Mattingly Conner wrote, >An English friend of mine was comparing the monies in Europe for >support of the Arts vs. the funds earmarked in the US for Art. I >was ashamed. I don't think it speaks for the people. There's no need to be ashamed; the numbers that people tend to quote are woefully incomplete. We do things differently in the U.S., with everything more decentralized than in other nations. When you add in private support of the arts and higher education expenditures on same, and state and local expenditures, not to mention the commercial realm, it's clear that the U.S. far outstrips any other nation in overall expenditures on the arts. Note that nobody complains that German culture is taking over the world; it's the U.S. they're concerned about, because we have the money and we use it. Best w's, S.T. Karnick
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:40:35 -0500 (CDT) From: AJ Wright <MEDS002(at)UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU> Subject: Re: quote question title of a book by Arthur Koestler, also author of _Darkness at Noon_... aj wright
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 17:07:09 -0500 From: "J.M. Jamieson" <jjamieson(at)odyssey.on.ca> Subject: Ghost in the Machine (was quote question) Hi all, Gilbert Ryle in his book "The Concept of Mind" (1949) used this concept in a derisive way to refer to a view of Descartes (actually Cartesian - since old Rene if Ryle had bothered to read him never held this view) that represents the body as a purely physical thing (the machine) and the mind as a purely non-physical thing (dah ghost)- which of course is sort-of in the body as a sort-of pilot. Ryle thinks (hee hee) that this is a totally wrong notion. Which of course it is. If he had bothered to read Descartes he would of known that - but alas, professors and all, you know.... Koestler's work came out in 1967. A tad late as of course were all his ideas. Mac http://www.odyssey.on.ca/~jjamieson/ ICQ#17834084
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:37:10 -0700 From: sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA Subject: Etext avail: P.G. McColl's "The Sting of Conscience" (STNGCONC.HTM) (Fiction, Chronos, Scheds) P.G. McColl's "The Sting of Conscience" (1898-99) stngconc.sht Here's next week's story for discussion, P.G. McColl's "The Sting of Conscience", originally serialized in three parts starting in 1898. The scene opens at the Melbourne Cup, a horse race still run today, in fact just this week!!! Thanks to Toni Johnson-Wood for sending it along. It is now available on the website and as an ASCII etext thru FTPmail. To retrieve the plain ASCII file, send to: ftpmail(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA with no subject heading and completely in lowercase: open aftp.mtroyal.ab.ca cd /gaslight get stngconc.sht or visit the Gaslight website at: http://www.mtroyal.ab.ca/gaslight/stngconc.htm
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:52:33 -0500 From: "Kevin J. Clement" <clementk(at)alink.com> Subject: Re: Libraries Even though my local public library is in a college town (or maybe because of it) it often (about every other months or more) gets rid of at least 10-30 books at a time by putting them out for sale for $0.25-$.50. If they don't sell I think they give them the local annual book sale and if they don't sell there they go to the Salvation Army or GoodWill. While most aren't anything great (like annual price guides, etc.) they often are books that haven't been checked out in a long time or never, usually from the "closed stacks" in the basement. While I have bought about 10 books from them I'd much rather they were available for others to read as well. Several times I've gone to that library to check out some book I was looking forward to reading to find it had been sold. This library does a good job on getting new books in a wide range of topics but I really have a hard time finding many older authors, or more than one or two books for a author. One of the reasons I joined Gaslight was to read and discuss authors I've heard about and *know* I should read but can't find anything by them. One of my gripes about this library is its second floor has a nice big empty section in the middle so people can look down on the first floor. Books are only around the walls, extending only 25' or so from the wall. They could've put plently of more books there. As a result I've had to buy more books, which is ok (but pricey and I tend to run out of room fast), but I would prefer to at least sample an author first. That and many authors are not in print and are hard to find even in used book stores. And as an admirer of Gustav Dore for example, the original editions with his prints are much preferred over cheap paperbacks of Dante, etc. to me. And are also nigh impossible to find outside of a library. There are two other libraries within a short (15-25 minute) drive of where I live. One is in about the same situation as my local library and the main Newark library is better but being located right in the middle of downtown is hard to get to and park at. They have a little better range of authors and usually more works per author. In regards to electronic preservation...there are 200-300dpi computer screens in development that would be much easier to read text on. If one could be put in some sort of portable device they could suppliment computer manuals, medical texts, etc. However there's still something about being able to hold a book in one's hands and turn the pages. No crashes, reboots, hard drive failures, etc. exp. been upgrading my copy of Internet Explorer 5.0 tonight and I've already had two program crashes while downloading. Will settle down to my new copy of The Haunting of Hill House after I send this email to fall asleep with. Had to order it through my local bookstore and though it arrived on Halloween I didn't get the postcard notification until Tuesday. :-( Kevin Clement clementk(at)alink.com "my remorse is over now and forever for desire and dream has gone and I am complete" Lord Sepulchrave - Gormenghast
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:50:00 -0700 From: sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA Subject: Etext avail: Van Loan's boxing story; and Australian tramps (BUCKMENU.HTM) (Fiction, Chronos) Charles E. Van Loan's "Scrap Iron" (1915) (SUNDOWNR.HTM) (Nonfict, Chronos) Anonymous' "'Sundowner's' and other bush types" (Year?) scrapiron.sht Coincident with this week's story by Charles E. Van Loan is another one of his sporting,this time about boxing. Van Loan was formerly the sports editor of the Los Angeles _Examiner_. The story is called "Scrap Iron" (1915) sundownr.non An essay published anonymously in _Temple Bar_, vol. 105 (Sorry, I forget the year) which elaborates on the varieties of tramp to be found in Australia. These are now available on the website and as ASCII etexts thru FTPmail. To retrieve the plain ASCII files, send to: ftpmail(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA with no subject heading and completely in lowercase: open aftp.mtroyal.ab.ca cd /gaslight get scrapirn.sht get sundownr.non or visit the Gaslight website at: http://www.mtroyal.ab.ca/gaslight/buckmenu.htm http://www.mtroyal.ab.ca/gaslight/sundownr.htm
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 06:03:51 -0600 From: smdawes(at)home.com Subject: Re: Libraries The local library in Omaha really irks me. I'm a big fan of Lord Byron; I checked out all of the collected letters edited by Leslie Marchand; there were about 14 volumes. In fact, I checked them all out numerous times. After several years, I wanted to go back and re-examine some of them. The library had sent the whole set out to their book sale! I was very upset, but there was nothing I could do. You would think that a historical figure like Byron would make them keep something like that forever, especially when the books cost about $25 each. Obviously, they are only worried about the number of times a book is checked out, not it's actual value as a reference. Because of this, I will have to go out and buy the set myself, and it runs about $125 used. I would like to own them anyway, but what about the person who can't afford this? Shouldn't they reasonably expect their local library to have something like this? Marta Kevin J. Clement wrote: > > Even though my local public library is in a college town (or maybe because > of it) it often (about every other months or more) gets rid of at least > 10-30 books at a time by putting them out for sale for $0.25-$.50. If they > don't sell I think they give them the local annual book sale and if they > don't sell there they go to the Salvation Army or GoodWill. While most > aren't anything great (like annual price guides, etc.) they often are books > that haven't been checked out in a long time or never, usually from the > "closed stacks" in the basement. > While I have bought about 10 books from them I'd much rather they were > available for others to read as well. Several times I've gone to that > library to check out some book I was looking forward to reading to find it > had been sold. This library does a good job on getting new books in a wide > range of topics but I really have a hard time finding many older authors, > or more than one or two books for a author. One of the reasons I joined > Gaslight was to read and discuss authors I've heard about and *know* I > should read but can't find anything by them. One of my gripes about this > library is its second floor has a nice big empty section in the middle so > people can look down on the first floor. Books are only around the walls, > extending only 25' or so from the wall. They could've put plently of more > books there. > As a result I've had to buy more books, which is ok (but pricey and I tend > to run out of room fast), but I would prefer to at least sample an author > first. That and many authors are not in print and are hard to find even in > used book stores. And as an admirer of Gustav Dore for example, the > original editions with his prints are much preferred over cheap paperbacks > of Dante, etc. to me. And are also nigh impossible to find outside of a > library. > There are two other libraries within a short (15-25 minute) drive of where > I live. One is in about the same situation as my local library and the main > Newark library is better but being located right in the middle of downtown > is hard to get to and park at. They have a little better range of authors > and usually more works per author. > In regards to electronic preservation...there are 200-300dpi computer > screens in development that would be much easier to read text on. If one > could be put in some sort of portable device they could suppliment computer > manuals, medical texts, etc. However there's still something about being > able to hold a book in one's hands and turn the pages. No crashes, reboots, > hard drive failures, etc. > > exp. been upgrading my copy of Internet Explorer 5.0 tonight and I've > already had two program crashes while downloading. > Will settle down to my new copy of The Haunting of Hill House after I send > this email to fall asleep with. Had to order it through my local bookstore > and though it arrived on Halloween I didn't get the postcard notification > until Tuesday. :-( > > Kevin Clement > clementk(at)alink.com > > "my remorse is over now and forever for desire and dream has gone and I am > complete" > Lord Sepulchrave - Gormenghast
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:41:06 -0700 From: Deborah McMillion Nering <deborah(at)gloaming.com> Subject: Re: Libraries >One of my gripes about this >> library is its second floor has a nice big empty section in the middle so >> people can look down on the first floor. Books are only around the walls, >> extending only 25' or so from the wall. They could've put plently of more >> books there. As a contrast, our big Central library just tripled it's size in a nice huge building. It has it's spacious aspects but nothing so open that isn't being used for books or reading tables. Many books that used to be in the basement "warehouse" that took days to get out are now out on the shelves. We have so many branches of the Phoenix library now, too, that in order to fill out the shelves there are fewer and fewer books in the basement. This is great even though it often means calling three branches to get the books you want. I'd rather do that though than discover a 12 volume set of Byron was expunged from the shelf because people weren't checking it out. It seems a given that that might just be a reference work and wouldn't be the type of thing to just get checked out. I often spend time in the library going over books and not checking them out. Maybe I should just to ensure that they are getting out and about enough. There's a job for all of us--check out obscure books as often as we can to keep their circulation up! Any input from the numerous librarians on our list as to why libraries get rid of so many books?--is circulation everything? I think spaciousness is nice in a building but why in a library?--my favorite library was the former one in Tempe. It had been in an old home and book cases were built in everywhich way. It was a cramped book maze that was a house of wonders to me as a kid. They built a large, spacious one, to replace it with big open areas of useless space where mostly children run and scream (?) instead of book cases. Deborah Deborah McMillion deborah(at)gloaming.com http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:06:59 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Libraries Our little town (7000 people, sort of) just tripled the size of our library. It's beautiful. And we all voted for the extra taxes that it cost. But the library still sells off "dusty" books. I'm usually there first thing in the morning of a sale. The library, presumably, stocks what people here want to read. But also takes suggestions from an active and vocal "Friends of the Library" organization. best phoebe
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:56:54 -0800 From: Patricia Teter <PTeter(at)getty.edu> Subject: Re: Libraries Kevin writes: <<In regards to electronic preservation...there are 200-300dpi computer screens in development that would be much easier to read text on. If one could be put in some sort of portable device they could suppliment computer manuals, medical texts, etc. However there's still something about being able to hold a book in one's hands and turn the pages. No crashes, reboots, hard drive failures, etc. >>> Early this spring, I attended a conference, "Time and Bits: Managing the Digital Continuity" which featured such speakers as Stewart Brand, Brian Eno, Danny Hillis, Jaron Lanier and Kevin Kelly, concerning the use of digital technologies, and among the topics was the dismaying discussion that the digital medium, as it exists today, disintegrates over a period of time. For example, your music CDs have a life span of about 10-12 years. A great deal of digitally recorded material, including the early electronic libraries must be migrated to maintain stability in order to preserve the material until new technologies are in place. Until that time, most old fashioned books still outlive the electronic form. Patricia
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:27:55 -0800 (PST) From: John Schilke <schilkej(at)ohsu.EDU> Subject: Re: Libraries Hello! I usually lurk and learn a great deal. On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Patricia Teter wrote: > > Early this spring, I attended a conference, "Time and Bits: Managing > the Digital Continuity" which featured such speakers as Stewart > Brand, Brian Eno, Danny Hillis, Jaron Lanier and Kevin Kelly, > concerning the use of digital technologies, and among the topics > was the dismaying discussion that the digital medium, as it exists > today, disintegrates over a period of time. >... For example, your music > CDs have a life span of about 10-12 years. Is this statement true??!! I am both amazed and frightened!! Was any explanation available, and does the number of plays of the CD make any difference? I am sure that many folks would be horrified to know that their expensive collections will disappear in a decade or so. Perhaps I oughtn't give away my '33' records just yet! Please expound further or refer to an authority on this problem, which is almost as important as "Y2K." > A great deal of digitally > recorded material, including the early electronic libraries must be > migrated to maintain stability in order to preserve the material until > new technologies are in place. Until that time, most old fashioned > books still outlive the electronic form. Thank you very much, John
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:32:21 -0800 (PST) From: John Tenney <jten(at)crl.com> Subject: Re: Libraries This is fascinating! I do wish that more people would listen to those who warn us that our dependence on new technology will result in shooting ourselves in the feet, or higher parts of the anatomy. Not just issues of information preservation, but quality of presentation. Studies are just coming out warning that overdependence on computers in the classroom may be highly counterproductive. On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Patricia Teter wrote: > Kevin writes: <<In regards to electronic preservation...there > are 200-300dpi computer screens in development that would > be much easier to read text on. If one could be put in some > sort of portable device they could suppliment computer manuals, > medical texts, etc. However there's still something about being > able to hold a book in one's hands and turn the pages. No > crashes, reboots, hard drive failures, etc. >>> > > Early this spring, I attended a conference, "Time and Bits: Managing > the Digital Continuity" which featured such speakers as Stewart > Brand, Brian Eno, Danny Hillis, Jaron Lanier and Kevin Kelly, > concerning the use of digital technologies, and among the topics > was the dismaying discussion that the digital medium, as it exists > today, disintegrates over a period of time. For example, your music > CDs have a life span of about 10-12 years. A great deal of digitally > recorded material, including the early electronic libraries must be > migrated to maintain stability in order to preserve the material until > new technologies are in place. Until that time, most old fashioned > books still outlive the electronic form. > > Patricia > > > > > > >
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:45:23 -0700 From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org> Subject: Today in History - Nov. 6 1860 Abraham Lincoln elected 16th president. 1861 Jefferson Davis elected to a six year term as President of the Confederacy. An Englishman's view of the Confederacy. 1863 Civil War Battle of Droop Mountain, W.Va. 1891 Comanche, the only 7th Cavalry horse to survive George Armstrong Custer's "Last Stand" at the Little Bighorn, dies at Fort Riley, Kan. Was there a cover-up of the real events surrounding the legendary battle at Little Bighhorn? 1900 President William McKinley reelected. 1911 Maine becomes a dry state. 1917 Bolshevik "October Revolution" (October 25 on the old Russian calendar), led by Vladimir Lenin and Leon Trotsky, seizes power in Petrograd. Born on November 6 1814 Adolphe Sax, instrument maker and inventor of the saxophone. 1831 James Garfield, 20th president of the United States. 1854 John Philip Sousa, bandmaster and composer.
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Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 12:37:48 -0500 From: "Kevin J. Clement" <clementk(at)alink.com> Subject: Re: Libraries >As a contrast, our big Central library just tripled it's size in a nice >huge building. It has it's spacious aspects but nothing so open that isn't >being used for books or reading tables. Many books that used to be in the >basement "warehouse" that took days to get out are now out on the shelves. >We have so many branches of the Phoenix library now, too, that in order to >fill out the shelves there are fewer and fewer books in the basement. This >is great even though it often means calling three branches to get the books >you want. I'd rather do that though than discover a 12 volume set of Byron >was expunged from the shelf because people weren't checking it out. It >seems a given that that might just be a reference work and wouldn't be the >type of thing to just get checked out. I often spend time in the library >going over books and not checking them out. Maybe I should just to ensure >that they are getting out and about enough. There's a job for all of >us--check out obscure books as often as we can to keep their circulation up! Agreed. And it makes the librarians open up the closed stacks more, get some exercise. At Granville Public Library one has to "wheel", literally spin huge sailing ship size wheels, several bookshelves over to get to any book in the closed stacks in the basement. If you need more than one, chances are they'll be in two different shelves. I still miss working at Kenyon College, as their library had an excellent classics selection. Not many new books but their selection of books from the early 20th c. on down was much better than the local public libraries. Actually got to leaf through one of the earliest printed Bibles; german, no fancy color illustrations but I didn't mind. ;-) On checking out what books are available, do your local libraries have any form of computer access? I can telnet to a computer database and search four local libraries. Could even put a hold or request on a book if I could remember my PIN number... >Any input from the numerous librarians on our list as to why libraries get >rid of so many books?--is circulation everything? I think spaciousness is >nice in a building but why in a library?--my favorite library was the >former one in Tempe. It had been in an old home and book cases were built >in everywhich way. It was a cramped book maze that was a house of wonders >to me as a kid. They built a large, spacious one, to replace it with big >open areas of useless space where mostly children run and scream (?) >instead of book cases. That's one thing I've noticed in all the college (5) libraries I've been in. A few desks to study in & a few computer terminals but the rest is all bookshelves. I think the reaping is mainly due to the need for more space so they can put in new books. Getting quite sick of seeing too many trash bios and bestsellers at a library. Granted I don't mind finding a new book I was about to buy at the library. Hopefully the Newark library (one town over) will finally start on the new building soon. >Deborah > >Deborah McMillion >deborah(at)gloaming.com >http://www.gloaming.com/deborah.html Kevin Clement clementk(at)alink.com "my remorse is over now and forever for desire and dream has gone and I am complete" Lord Sepulchrave - Gormenghast ------------------------------ End of Gaslight Digest V1 #17 *****************************