In this issue: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Poor Sam! The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Re: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Re: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply RE: Poor Sam! Re: Orczy's 3 -ages of man Re: Orczy's 3 -ages of man The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Re: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Cater Street Hangman [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] Re: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] [Spoilers here] Re: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] [Spoilers here] Re: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] [Spoilers here] Today in History - Dec. 14 Re: Today in History - Dec. 14 -----------------------------THE POSTS----------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:55:13 -0500 From: Sam Karnick <SAMK(at)hudson.org> Subject: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Richard's comments on "The Knightsbridge Mystery" are very astute. I would add that I thought the perpetrator's reaction upon hearing of the robbery and murder -- to express moderate but not overstated concern, and to assist in the defense of the suspect -- was very wise. "Cox! No doubt he is a knave," says the murderer; "but murder!--I should never have suspected him of that." Just the right reaction, I think. (One thing that often bothers me in COLUMBO is that the suspects typically try too hard to deflect suspicion from themselves. One would like to see a suspect just play it truly cool and not try to ply the detective with alternative explanations to the sutbly-damning statements Columbo typically makes to them, which is when they slip up worst. Far better it would be to say, "That's a tough one, Lieutenant. I'm sure glad I don't have your job.") The perpetrator of this crime plays it just right but is caught anyway. A nice moment: early on, an unidentified man says, "I like not--a man--who wears--a mask," a statement that proves wise in both its literal and figurative applications. I found it striking at the time, and enjoyed the way the author elaborated on its implications later without restating it explicitly. Yes, the Captain does seem to have spoiled Jack a bit -- if Gardiner's assessment in Chapter 1 is correct. But note that once Jack gets away from his father, he turns out to be quite praiseworthy: his college tutor almost immediately commends "his ability, good conduct, devotion to study." Later, "his tutors also spoke very highly of him." Jack's one fault appears to be a certain laxity regarding money, but whereas he is ignorant of his father's financial troubles -- which only the father's pride keeps him from knowing -- he can certainly be forgiven for asking his father for money. I found most interesting the illustration of a criminal's typical response to being caught: he wasn't doing wrong, really, because it was for the right reasons; he had been robbed himself and only wanted the money to help someone else. Reade sees through that pretense, noting that the thief had stolen a horse at Ipswich many years before, and had escaped prison by use of a file brought him by a female admirer. That is to say, his end was evident in his beginning. Best w's, S.T. Karnick >>> "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> 12/08/98 09:01am >>> I read "The Knightsbridge Mystery" (which I believe we are to discuss starting today) last night and was very taken with it (a detective story!), even though it is a sad, sordid little tale of greed and treachery. I won't mention anything that might spoil it for anyone, but I will note that this story contains a good example of a dogged detective who admirably succeeds through determination and the use of good police methods: interviewing witnesses, putting together facts, making intelligent deductions, and undertaking a tenacious stakeout and includes undercover work. We don't see much of the personality of the detective, Bradbury, who is a professional and behaves professionally in his handling of the case (whose original solution just didn't smell right to him). We get a much more human look, though, at boardinghouse life (or how Victorian Charles Reade viewed it anyway) during the reign of George I. Reade unfolds society's daily drama as it impacts people in their different stations of life as they scrabble and scrap their way. Perhaps a deeper meaning here is how one's position in life acts as a trap, as definining walls one cannot break out of. For instance, even the police detective finds it extremely difficult to get an audience over a life-and-death matter with the minister who has the power to stop an execution. Cold, hard cash is all important, and while some people will do anything to obtain it or keep it, others, like the housekeeper, don't seem to desire it much (maybe she realizes she has no hope of ever obtaining any money and is willing to live her life simply as a boardinghouse servant). Despite a tendency to gossip for entertainment during this television-deficient time, people generally behave well toward one another (except for those willing to murder, of course), and the boardinghouse is a refuge in a town surrounded by dangerous "footpads" who will rob and kill. When murder takes place in their midst (almost twice), it is a most horrible violation, since there are employees (plus a formidable landlady) and locks and keys to keep people feeling safe from the highwaymen. As for the dynamics of the main story concerning the Captain, his son, and the impact of money upon them, well, it might be a good idea to let other Gaslight readers catch up on their reading before mentioning this. I will say that I was expecting to learn more about the son and his possible involvement with the crimes, and I can't quite figure out the significance of the captain impersonating the parson in another town. Also remarkable was the extent to which the legal bureaucrats were willing to help falsify appearances so everything would look well on the surface. A good story, even though a sad one in many ways. Richard King rking(at)indian.vinu.edu
===0===
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:39:58 -0500
From: Linda Anderson <lpa1(at)ptdprolog.net>
Subject: Poor Sam!
Stephen:
Has anyone heard from Sam since the burping began? I worry that he is
slumped over the keyboard with his head on the send button and no one has
come to his aid.
Sam! Come back! All is forgiven! That previous message ("All is known.
Flee") was sent to the wrong person.
Linda Anderson
===0===
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:55:13 -0500 From: Sam Karnick <SAMK(at)hudson.org> Subject: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Richard's comments on "The Knightsbridge Mystery" are very astute. I would add that I thought the perpetrator's reaction upon hearing of the robbery and murder -- to express moderate but not overstated concern, and to assist in the defense of the suspect -- was very wise. "Cox! No doubt he is a knave," says the murderer; "but murder!--I should never have suspected him of that." Just the right reaction, I think. (One thing that often bothers me in COLUMBO is that the suspects typically try too hard to deflect suspicion from themselves. One would like to see a suspect just play it truly cool and not try to ply the detective with alternative explanations to the sutbly-damning statements Columbo typically makes to them, which is when they slip up worst. Far better it would be to say, "That's a tough one, Lieutenant. I'm sure glad I don't have your job.") The perpetrator of this crime plays it just right but is caught anyway. A nice moment: early on, an unidentified man says, "I like not--a man--who wears--a mask," a statement that proves wise in both its literal and figurative applications. I found it striking at the time, and enjoyed the way the author elaborated on its implications later without restating it explicitly. Yes, the Captain does seem to have spoiled Jack a bit -- if Gardiner's assessment in Chapter 1 is correct. But note that once Jack gets away from his father, he turns out to be quite praiseworthy: his college tutor almost immediately commends "his ability, good conduct, devotion to study." Later, "his tutors also spoke very highly of him." Jack's one fault appears to be a certain laxity regarding money, but whereas he is ignorant of his father's financial troubles -- which only the father's pride keeps him from knowing -- he can certainly be forgiven for asking his father for money. I found most interesting the illustration of a criminal's typical response to being caught: he wasn't doing wrong, really, because it was for the right reasons; he had been robbed himself and only wanted the money to help someone else. Reade sees through that pretense, noting that the thief had stolen a horse at Ipswich many years before, and had escaped prison by use of a file brought him by a female admirer. That is to say, his end was evident in his beginning. Best w's, S.T. Karnick >>> "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> 12/08/98 09:01am >>> I read "The Knightsbridge Mystery" (which I believe we are to discuss starting today) last night and was very taken with it (a detective story!), even though it is a sad, sordid little tale of greed and treachery. I won't mention anything that might spoil it for anyone, but I will note that this story contains a good example of a dogged detective who admirably succeeds through determination and the use of good police methods: interviewing witnesses, putting together facts, making intelligent deductions, and undertaking a tenacious stakeout and includes undercover work. We don't see much of the personality of the detective, Bradbury, who is a professional and behaves professionally in his handling of the case (whose original solution just didn't smell right to him). We get a much more human look, though, at boardinghouse life (or how Victorian Charles Reade viewed it anyway) during the reign of George I. Reade unfolds society's daily drama as it impacts people in their different stations of life as they scrabble and scrap their way. Perhaps a deeper meaning here is how one's position in life acts as a trap, as definining walls one cannot break out of. For instance, even the police detective finds it extremely difficult to get an audience over a life-and-death matter with the minister who has the power to stop an execution. Cold, hard cash is all important, and while some people will do anything to obtain it or keep it, others, like the housekeeper, don't seem to desire it much (maybe she realizes she has no hope of ever obtaining any money and is willing to live her life simply as a boardinghouse servant). Despite a tendency to gossip for entertainment during this television-deficient time, people generally behave well toward one another (except for those willing to murder, of course), and the boardinghouse is a refuge in a town surrounded by dangerous "footpads" who will rob and kill. When murder takes place in their midst (almost twice), it is a most horrible violation, since there are employees (plus a formidable landlady) and locks and keys to keep people feeling safe from the highwaymen. As for the dynamics of the main story concerning the Captain, his son, and the impact of money upon them, well, it might be a good idea to let other Gaslight readers catch up on their reading before mentioning this. I will say that I was expecting to learn more about the son and his possible involvement with the crimes, and I can't quite figure out the significance of the captain impersonating the parson in another town. Also remarkable was the extent to which the legal bureaucrats were willing to help falsify appearances so everything would look well on the surface. A good story, even though a sad one in many ways. Richard King rking(at)indian.vinu.edu
===0===
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:45:40 -0500 (EST) From: TFox434690(at)aol.com Subject: Re: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply In a message dated 12/10/98 9:25:01 AM Central Standard Time, dgold(at)javanet.com writes: << I remember reading that one giveaway is the reaction of a suspect upon being arrested/held for questioning. If he's left alone for awhile, he'll fall asleep. An innocent person, on the other hand, will stay alert. Has to do, I understand, with physiological responses after the planning and execution of the crime. The actual criminal would be exhausted, physically, emotionally and psychologically. For the innocent one, his ordeal has just begun. I presume that this occurs when the suspect is arrested just after the commission of the crime --- not some time later. >> That example was used in the movie "The Usual Suspects." I have wondered how much truth there was to it. Any Gaslighters know the answer? Tom Fox
===0===
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:02:11 -0500 From: "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> Subject: Re: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply I can't help but think of I were arrested I would be so exhausted by the trauma I would fall asleep pretty quickly. I guess I would be considered guilty, then. Richard TFox434690(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/10/98 9:25:01 AM Central Standard Time, > dgold(at)javanet.com writes: > > << > I remember reading that one giveaway is the reaction of a suspect > upon being arrested/held for questioning. If he's left alone for awhile, > he'll fall asleep. An innocent person, on the other hand, will stay alert. > > Has to do, I understand, with physiological responses after the > planning and execution of the crime. The actual criminal would be > exhausted, physically, emotionally and psychologically. For the innocent > one, his ordeal has just begun. > > I presume that this occurs when the suspect is arrested just after > the commission of the crime --- not some time later. >> > > That example was used in the movie "The Usual Suspects." I have wondered > how > much truth there was to it. Any Gaslighters know the answer? > > Tom Fox
===0===
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:44:19 -0600
From: Mattingly Conner <muse(at)iland.net>
Subject: RE: Poor Sam!
Ah! A mystery! Something afoot! Quickly, quickly, send Dr. Watson!
With heart,
Deborah Mattingly Conner
muse(at)iland.net
http://www.iland.net/~muse
"... (The) psyche is a temenos, a sacred space, and its highest purpose is
individuation, as a treasure map to finding our Divine Guest in an inner
certainty, even when things are really painful, that there is a mysterious
purpose to all things." A.O. Howell
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA
[mailto:owner-gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA]On Behalf Of Linda Anderson
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 3:40 PM
To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA
Subject: Poor Sam!
Stephen:
Has anyone heard from Sam since the burping began? I worry that he is
slumped over the keyboard with his head on the send button and no one has
come to his aid.
Sam! Come back! All is forgiven! That previous message ("All is known.
Flee") was sent to the wrong person.
Linda Anderson
===0===
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:15:03 -0500 From: "S.T. Karnick" <skarnick(at)INDY.NET> Subject: Re: Orczy's 3 -ages of man Gassers, I've headed over to a different server to apologize once again for the repetitive-message problem. It was indeed on our end (not my computer but the file server, so I have no control over it), though I still do not know what the cause is. Nonetheless. . . . As to "The Duffield Peerage Case," I found it rather interesting and quite enjoyable. I did not think that SoMT was showing any special amount of contempt for the two peers; rather, I think that he simply judged that they were not the types of person to pull off the crime envisioned. This puts him on the intuitive side of the detective continuum, temporarily, but later he shows a reasonable amount of ratiocination in solving the case. Two interesting notes. One, the detective's willingness to circumvent the law in resolving the situation in favor of both his client and the true criminal is, of course, reminiscent of Holmes, but it is a strong element throughout Orczy's works. One wonders whether her noble lineage and foreign birth have something to do with this. And two (which is related to point 1), SoMT is clearly an English version of Randolph Mason, Melville Davisson Post's highly innovative character of the 1890s, a lawyer who uses the letter of the law to defeat the purposes of the law. Mason, of course, was an acknowledged inspiration for Erle Stanley Gardner's Perry Mason. Post's point in creating Mason was to point out deficiencies in the law, and in fact some of the cases in Mason stories actually brought on legal reforms to remedy the problems Post indicated. But it is also clear that Post was using Mason to make a serious religious point as well. (See Hebrews and the letters of the Apostle Paul for the key to this.) Orczy's concerns, by contrast, are strictly social, which may be why Post's character remains highly influential and is still well remembered whereas Orczy's is mostly interesting as a facet of a talented writer's total output. Finally, it would be funny to send this message a couple extra times, just to scare people, but I cannot bring myself to do it. Best w's, S.T. Karnick - -----Original Message----- From: sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA <sdavies(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA> To: gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA <gaslight(at)MtRoyal.AB.CA> Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:03 AM Subject: Orczy's 3 -ages of man >The Baroness presents us with the three -ages of man in her story >"The Duffield peerage case": Peerage, Steerage and Cleavage. I'm >guessing that Skin o' my Tooth is always helping the underdog, >particularly the disreputable underdog, escape the machinations of >the law. > >Skin o' my Tooth (SomT.) judged the titled parties in question as >being too dim to execute the crime for which they had been blamed >by the public and investigated by the police. Is our baroness >author casting doubt on the quality of the inheritors of titles? >or is she suggesting that the Viscount's father is just stupid >enough to have been wangled by the fascinating, but definitely >lower class woman in India. > >So much of this story revolves around chance. When the woman's >first husband was thought to be alive, the soldiering second >husband was justified in leaving her and their offspring to >fend for themselves. But when it looks like the first husband >is going to be proven to have died days before the nuptuals, >all is peachy with the marriage and the worst that could be >said of the bride is that she didn't wear any black. > >As if the rightful heirs to the title weren't weak enough, the >potential usurper would surely have been worse. This has the >stamp of _Puddin'head Wilson_ all over it, in that the potential >is here for the uncouth castoff to claim an estate and the >educated, privileged offspring is about to be impoverished. > >I think Orczy's stories of titled characters, especially seedy >stories, appealed to the reading public, and she walked a fine >line until she created Sir Percy Blakeney and was finally one >of the romanticists who glorified titles and birthrights. > >I can't think of an Old Man in the Corner story which dealed >with titles but Lady Molly often did. A late change of pace >came with _The man in grey_ (1919), when Orczy portrayed >Royalists as greedy and nefarious during Napoleon's empire, >but more about that in January. > >Stephen D >mailto:Sdavies(at)mtroyal.ab.ca > >
===0===
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:30:55 -0500 From: "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> Subject: Re: Orczy's 3 -ages of man Sam: > > > Finally, it would be funny to send this message a couple extra times, just > to scare people, but I cannot bring myself to do it. ONLY if you include the words "astute" and "Richard" in the first sentence again--I kind of liked seeing that 30 or 40 times! Now I'm off to read "The Duffield Peerage Case." Sounds like another good detective story. Richard King rking(at)indian.vinu.edu
===0===
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:55:13 -0500 From: Sam Karnick <SAMK(at)hudson.org> Subject: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Richard's comments on "The Knightsbridge Mystery" are very astute. I would add that I thought the perpetrator's reaction upon hearing of the robbery and murder -- to express moderate but not overstated concern, and to assist in the defense of the suspect -- was very wise. "Cox! No doubt he is a knave," says the murderer; "but murder!--I should never have suspected him of that." Just the right reaction, I think. (One thing that often bothers me in COLUMBO is that the suspects typically try too hard to deflect suspicion from themselves. One would like to see a suspect just play it truly cool and not try to ply the detective with alternative explanations to the sutbly-damning statements Columbo typically makes to them, which is when they slip up worst. Far better it would be to say, "That's a tough one, Lieutenant. I'm sure glad I don't have your job.") The perpetrator of this crime plays it just right but is caught anyway. A nice moment: early on, an unidentified man says, "I like not--a man--who wears--a mask," a statement that proves wise in both its literal and figurative applications. I found it striking at the time, and enjoyed the way the author elaborated on its implications later without restating it explicitly. Yes, the Captain does seem to have spoiled Jack a bit -- if Gardiner's assessment in Chapter 1 is correct. But note that once Jack gets away from his father, he turns out to be quite praiseworthy: his college tutor almost immediately commends "his ability, good conduct, devotion to study." Later, "his tutors also spoke very highly of him." Jack's one fault appears to be a certain laxity regarding money, but whereas he is ignorant of his father's financial troubles -- which only the father's pride keeps him from knowing -- he can certainly be forgiven for asking his father for money. I found most interesting the illustration of a criminal's typical response to being caught: he wasn't doing wrong, really, because it was for the right reasons; he had been robbed himself and only wanted the money to help someone else. Reade sees through that pretense, noting that the thief had stolen a horse at Ipswich many years before, and had escaped prison by use of a file brought him by a female admirer. That is to say, his end was evident in his beginning. Best w's, S.T. Karnick >>> "Richard L. King" <rking(at)INDIAN.VINU.EDU> 12/08/98 09:01am >>> I read "The Knightsbridge Mystery" (which I believe we are to discuss starting today) last night and was very taken with it (a detective story!), even though it is a sad, sordid little tale of greed and treachery. I won't mention anything that might spoil it for anyone, but I will note that this story contains a good example of a dogged detective who admirably succeeds through determination and the use of good police methods: interviewing witnesses, putting together facts, making intelligent deductions, and undertaking a tenacious stakeout and includes undercover work. We don't see much of the personality of the detective, Bradbury, who is a professional and behaves professionally in his handling of the case (whose original solution just didn't smell right to him). We get a much more human look, though, at boardinghouse life (or how Victorian Charles Reade viewed it anyway) during the reign of George I. Reade unfolds society's daily drama as it impacts people in their different stations of life as they scrabble and scrap their way. Perhaps a deeper meaning here is how one's position in life acts as a trap, as definining walls one cannot break out of. For instance, even the police detective finds it extremely difficult to get an audience over a life-and-death matter with the minister who has the power to stop an execution. Cold, hard cash is all important, and while some people will do anything to obtain it or keep it, others, like the housekeeper, don't seem to desire it much (maybe she realizes she has no hope of ever obtaining any money and is willing to live her life simply as a boardinghouse servant). Despite a tendency to gossip for entertainment during this television-deficient time, people generally behave well toward one another (except for those willing to murder, of course), and the boardinghouse is a refuge in a town surrounded by dangerous "footpads" who will rob and kill. When murder takes place in their midst (almost twice), it is a most horrible violation, since there are employees (plus a formidable landlady) and locks and keys to keep people feeling safe from the highwaymen. As for the dynamics of the main story concerning the Captain, his son, and the impact of money upon them, well, it might be a good idea to let other Gaslight readers catch up on their reading before mentioning this. I will say that I was expecting to learn more about the son and his possible involvement with the crimes, and I can't quite figure out the significance of the captain impersonating the parson in another town. Also remarkable was the extent to which the legal bureaucrats were willing to help falsify appearances so everything would look well on the surface. A good story, even though a sad one in many ways. Richard King rking(at)indian.vinu.edu
===0===
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:20:29 +1000 From: Toni Johnson-Woods <t.johnsonwoods(at)mailbox.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: The Knightsbridge Mystery -Reply Just when you though it was safe . . . Lecturer Contemporary Studies University of Queensland Brisbane 4072 entjohns(at)mailbox.uq.edu.au
===0===
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:20:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: Cater Street Hangman
Are Anne Perry's novels as rubbishy as last night's A&E dramatization
of this one? I've never read one, but was hoping to be pleasantly
surprised. The dramatization has put me off considerably.
Bob C.
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
Those who are alive receive a mandate from those
who are silent forever. They can fulfill their
duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely
things as they were and by wresting the past
from fictions and legends.
--Czeslaw Milosz
rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
===0===
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:30:21 -0600 From: Debbie Payton <clue1(at)fbtc.net> Subject: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] Hi everyone. I have to de-lurk here for a minute to respond to this question. Whether an author's work can be called "rubbishy," is undeniably a matter of opinion. In my opinion, "rubbishy" is most certainly the last adjective that I would use to describe Anne Perry's writing. She is a master storyteller who consistently displays a most literate understanding of 19th century Victorian British society, within which setting she weaves cogent and highly entertaining tales of mystery and intrigue. She is a favorite among many, myself included, who consider her unrivaled in this genre. With respect to A&E's presentation of The Cater Street Hangman, yes, it seriously paled in comparison to the book. Debbie Payton Robert Champ wrote: > Are Anne Perry's novels as rubbishy as last night's A&E dramatization > of this one? I've never read one, but was hoping to be pleasantly > surprised. The dramatization has put me off considerably. > > Bob C. > _________________________________________________ > (at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at) > > Robert L. Champ > rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu > Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity > > Those who are alive receive a mandate from those > who are silent forever. They can fulfill their > duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely > things as they were and by wresting the past > from fictions and legends. > --Czeslaw Milosz > > rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net > _________________________________________________ > (at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
===0===
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:14:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Champ <rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] [Spoilers here]
I'm glad to hear that the book is much better. Let me give you
an example of what I mean by "rubbishy." At the end of the story
the detective, Inspector Pitt, shoots the murderer dead in the
street. The murderer, who happens to be a woman, is garrotting
his would-be sweetheart with what looks to be a piece of wire.
Immediately the would-be sweetheart, a young lady of the upper
classes, flies to his arms and confesses her love for him,
and there--next to the corpse and in the gathering crowd--he
gives her a deep, romantic kiss.
Now, I would think that anyone who has just shot and killed
another human being would be upset by that fact, even if this
person were a killer, and would not have his mind on his
romantic life. Perhaps this does happen, but it was highly
disconcerting here and said very little for the character of
either the detective or the young lady, both of whom we are
supposed to admire.
Maybe the show was just running out of time and the writers
needed to get in the denoument of the love story quickly. But
to hold a romantic tete-a-tete while practically standing over
a corpse for which you are responsible struck me as tasteless
to an excessive degree--in a word, rubbishy.
I have nothing against Anne Perry and want to give her a
try one of these days. But this production was certainly not
an advertisement for her.
Bob C.
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Debbie Payton wrote:
> Hi everyone. I have to de-lurk here for a minute to respond to this
> question. Whether an author's work can be called "rubbishy," is
> undeniably a matter of opinion. In my opinion, "rubbishy" is most
> certainly the last adjective that I would use to describe Anne Perry's
> writing. She is a master storyteller who consistently displays a most
> literate understanding of 19th century Victorian British society, within
> which setting she weaves cogent and highly entertaining tales of mystery
> and intrigue. She is a favorite among many, myself included, who
> consider her unrivaled in this genre. With respect to A&E's presentation
> of The Cater Street Hangman, yes, it seriously paled in comparison to the
> book.
>
> Debbie Payton
>
> Robert Champ wrote:
>
> > Are Anne Perry's novels as rubbishy as last night's A&E dramatization
> > of this one? I've never read one, but was hoping to be pleasantly
> > surprised. The dramatization has put me off considerably.
> >
> > Bob C.
> > _________________________________________________
> > (at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
> >
> > Robert L. Champ
> > rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
> > Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
> >
> > Those who are alive receive a mandate from those
> > who are silent forever. They can fulfill their
> > duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely
> > things as they were and by wresting the past
> > from fictions and legends.
> > --Czeslaw Milosz
> >
> > rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
> > _________________________________________________
> > (at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Robert L. Champ
rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
Those who are alive receive a mandate from those
who are silent forever. They can fulfill their
duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely
things as they were and by wresting the past
from fictions and legends.
--Czeslaw Milosz
rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
_________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:28:39 -0500
From: lpv1(at)is2.nyu.edu
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] [Spoilers here]
Dear Bob,
Ann Perry's mystery novels are an acquired taste. Personally, I am not
enamoured of the victorian era when it comes to the treatment of women and
the class system. Perry seems to exaggerate to make a point of I believe.
I am a great reader of mystery stories, both hard-boiled and cosies, but I
make a great point of suspending my disbelief and just go with the flow.
I didn't see the show, but one definitely has to be in the mood for them.
Actually,
when I am in the right mood, I put on Christie's Poirot tape, and just let it
wash me -- especially the Death on the Nile.
I don't know whether her writing is of merit or not -- but it is fairly
readable. I
think what may get in the way for me, is when I read genuine thing and then
I read her --
something is amiss and I can't put my finger on it.
Luciepaula
At 11:14 AM 12/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm glad to hear that the book is much better. Let me give you
>an example of what I mean by "rubbishy." At the end of the story
>the detective, Inspector Pitt, shoots the murderer dead in the
>street. The murderer, who happens to be a woman, is garrotting
>his would-be sweetheart with what looks to be a piece of wire.
>Immediately the would-be sweetheart, a young lady of the upper
>classes, flies to his arms and confesses her love for him,
>and there--next to the corpse and in the gathering crowd--he
>gives her a deep, romantic kiss.
>
>Now, I would think that anyone who has just shot and killed
>another human being would be upset by that fact, even if this
>person were a killer, and would not have his mind on his
>romantic life. Perhaps this does happen, but it was highly
>disconcerting here and said very little for the character of
>either the detective or the young lady, both of whom we are
>supposed to admire.
>
>Maybe the show was just running out of time and the writers
>needed to get in the denoument of the love story quickly. But
>to hold a romantic tete-a-tete while practically standing over
>a corpse for which you are responsible struck me as tasteless
>to an excessive degree--in a word, rubbishy.
>
>I have nothing against Anne Perry and want to give her a
>try one of these days. But this production was certainly not
>an advertisement for her.
>
>Bob C.
>
>On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Debbie Payton wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone. I have to de-lurk here for a minute to respond to this
>> question. Whether an author's work can be called "rubbishy," is
>> undeniably a matter of opinion. In my opinion, "rubbishy" is most
>> certainly the last adjective that I would use to describe Anne Perry's
>> writing. She is a master storyteller who consistently displays a most
>> literate understanding of 19th century Victorian British society, within
>> which setting she weaves cogent and highly entertaining tales of mystery
>> and intrigue. She is a favorite among many, myself included, who
>> consider her unrivaled in this genre. With respect to A&E's presentation
>> of The Cater Street Hangman, yes, it seriously paled in comparison to the
>> book.
>>
>> Debbie Payton
>>
>> Robert Champ wrote:
>>
>> > Are Anne Perry's novels as rubbishy as last night's A&E dramatization
>> > of this one? I've never read one, but was hoping to be pleasantly
>> > surprised. The dramatization has put me off considerably.
>> >
>> > Bob C.
>> > _________________________________________________
>> > (at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
>> >
>> > Robert L. Champ
>> > rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
>> > Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
>> >
>> > Those who are alive receive a mandate from those
>> > who are silent forever. They can fulfill their
>> > duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely
>> > things as they were and by wresting the past
>> > from fictions and legends.
>> > --Czeslaw Milosz
>> >
>> > rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
>> > _________________________________________________
>> > (at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________
>(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
>
>Robert L. Champ
>rchamp(at)polaris.umuc.edu
>Editor, teacher, anglophile, human curiosity
>
>Those who are alive receive a mandate from those
>who are silent forever. They can fulfill their
>duties only by trying to reconstruct precisely
>things as they were and by wresting the past
>from fictions and legends.
> --Czeslaw Milosz
>
>rchamp7927(at)aol.com robertchamp(at)netscape.net
>_________________________________________________
>(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)(at)
>
===0===
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:46:59 -0700 (MST) From: "p.h.wood" <woodph(at)freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Cater Street Hangman] [Spoilers here] I, too, saw the A&E production of "The Cater Street Hangman". I would have preferred to see it on PBS's "Mystery", simply because some fifteen or twenty minutes of a two-hour production has to be reserved for commercials. The only way to do this is to arbitrarily cut out the necessary time from the original videotape. This state of affairs is the result of financing television programming by selling advertising space. Such has been North America's choice, and we view the consequences daily - or, rather, ignore them with the "mute" button depressed on the remote control. As Kurt Vonnegut observed: "So it goes". One point my wife (who is an Anne Perry reader) and I both noticed was the unrealistic, and for the time impossible manner in which Charlotte went outside the house unescorted. For a late Victorian middle-class daughter, life was claustrophobic in the way it restricted women to the interior of the family house unless they were in the company of a male family member. Of course, to shoot the film in such a manner that this was made clear would have posed many technical problems in set design. To see how these can be solved in practice, I suggest a visit to the Granada TV studios in Manchester where the sets for Sherlock Holmes are (or were) on view. It is quite surprising how 221B expands over a large area, to let cameras move about, and how rooms turn out to be devoid of ceilings to allow overhead shots. No doubt if there is a series of Inspector Pitt films, a complete set will be constructed permitting more interior shots. Peter Wood
===0===
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:48:35 -0700
From: Jerry Carlson <gmc(at)libra.pvh.org>
Subject: Today in History - Dec. 14
1819
Alabama is admitted as the 22nd state, making 11 slave states
and 11 free states.
1861
Prince Albert of England, one of the Union's strongest
advocates, dies.
1863
Longstreet attacks Union troops at Bean's Station, Tenn.
1863
The widow of Confederate General B.H. Helm is given amnesty by
President Lincoln after
she swears allegiance to the Union. Mrs. Helm is the
half-sister of Mary Todd Lincoln.
1900
Max Planck presents the quantum theory at the Physics Society
in Berlin.
1906
First U1 submarine is brought into service in Germany.
1908
The first truly representative Turkish Parliament opens.
1909
The Labor Conference in Pittsburgh ends with a "declaration of
war" on U.S. Steel.
Born on December 14
1895
George VI
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:57:30 -0500 (EST) From: Zozie(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Today in History - Dec. 14 Also born this day, in 1897 -- Margaret Chase Smith, senator and congresswoman. best phoebe ------------------------------ End of Gaslight Digest V1 #31 *****************************