Gaslight digest of discussion for 97-apr-24
----------------------------THE HEADERS---------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:44:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Debah(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: What is "porching" or "church-porching"? [11317] [11350] [11352]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:55:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Woolley
Subject: Re: Ingoldsby's "The spectre of Tappington" [11309] [11311] [11343] [11353]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:57:40 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: Re: My recent TV viewing [11276] [11291] [11354]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:11:05 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: Sabine Baring-Gould [11355]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:15:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Woolley
Subject: Re: What is "porching" or "church-porching"? [11317] [11350] [11352]
[11356]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:46:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Debah(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Sabine Baring-Gould [11355] [11357]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:45 -0700
From: "Ann P. Melvin"
Subject: Sabine Baring-Gould [11358]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:05:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ruth W. Jeffries"
Subject: Re: My recent TV viewing [11276] [11291] [11354] [11359]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:53:34 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: H. James and the "real thing" [11360]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:55:44 -0700 (MST)
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by MtRoyal.AB.CA
From: Linda Anderson
Subject: Jane Eyre [11361]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:35:02 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: Austen's smartin' [11362]
-----------------------------THE POSTS-----------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:44:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Debah(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: What is "porching" or "church-porching"? [11317] [11350] [11352]
In a message dated 4/23/97 10:46:39 PM, you wrote:
>DEATH WATCH. (A folkloristic belief that the
>spirits of those due to die within the next
>year will be seen at a certain time and place--
>usually the church. In England called porching
>or church-porching.)
There is a story in one of the latest Ash Tree reprints by S. Baring-Gould
called "Black Ram" that says you can see the souls of those who die in the
coming year on St. Mark's Eve by waiting on the porch of the church.
Naturally someone finds themself on that porch for the story to unfold.
I had no idea it was the same thing when you asked your question, Stephen.
Deborah McMillion
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:55:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Woolley
Subject: Re: Ingoldsby's "The spectre of Tappington" [11309] [11311] [11343] [11353]
Proving once again that all the knowledge of mankind is
available on "gaslight", Peter Wood answers my puzzlement about
tenure "per saltum sufflatum, et pettem":
> > Tenure "per saltum et sufflatum" might well be
> > explained, as here, as an obligation (in exchange for the
> > holding of one's fief) to "take a leap and cry hem!"; but
> > "pettem" isn't Latin, and I can't think what it's meant to be a
> > mistake for.
>
> For enlightenment, consult Rabelais' "Gargantua & Pantagruel" Bk.V,
> Ch. 7, where the wholly disreputable Panurge is describing the activities
> of a donkey when threatened with a beating. "Pettem" is possibly the Latin
> origin of the French expression "lacher un pet" - to break wind anally.
> A typical example of Victorian bawdry.
Wonderful! The only remaining question being whether there's
a Latin origin for "pet", or whether "pettem" is a humourous
back-formation from the French. The Usual Sources (memory,
Cassell's, Lewis & Short) know nothing of "pettem"; but the
dictionaries might be bowdlerized. The usual Latin for "lacher
un pet" is "flatulare"; the Greek is "perdesthai", if I memory
serves (which it does less and less often).
Isn't antiquarianism enlightening?
-- Fr. John
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:57:40 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: Re: My recent TV viewing [11276] [11291] [11354]
Ruth "Jane Eyre" Jeffries responded to my comments about
_Persuasion_:
>Subject: Re: My recent TV viewing [11276] [11291]
>... In _Jane
>Eyre_, Amanda Root was Miss (name--teacher at awful school), the angelic
>one who helped Jane and Helen. What part in _Persuasion_ did Samuel West
>play? I might be able to identify him in _Jane Eyre_ if I knew, since I
>just saw _Persuasion_ again.
Samuel West was the nefarious blonde cousin who wanted
to marry the heroine in order to retain a deed. All names
now escape me.
Stephen D
SDavies(at)mtroyal.ab.ca
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:11:05 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: Sabine Baring-Gould [11355]
Deborah Mc.,
I envy you having a Sabine Baring-Gould story to
read. I have tried to find him repeatedly, but his books
are significantly missing from the local university library.
I take this as an indication that this work (and his folklore
compilations) are very interesting.
I have run across some short stories by him in periodicals of
the day, but usually tame, domestic tales.
Hats off to the Rodens for putting him in print again.
Stephen D
SDavies(at)mtroyal.ab.ca
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:15:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: John Woolley
Subject: Re: What is "porching" or "church-porching"? [11317] [11350] [11352]
[11356]
Debah(at)aol.com writes:
> There is a story in one of the latest Ash Tree reprints by S. Baring-Gould
> called "Black Ram" that says you can see the souls of those who die in the
> coming year on St. Mark's Eve by waiting on the porch of the church.
> Naturally someone finds themself on that porch for the story to unfold.
Isn't there a Thomas Hardy short story about this practice?
(Or an incident in a novel? Hardy? Eliot?)
And for what it's worth, St. Mark's Eve is tonight.
-- Fr. John
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:46:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Debah(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Sabine Baring-Gould [11355] [11357]
Baring-Gould was certainly a prolific writer, as the intro to his book of
ghost tales states (written by Richard Dalby). It also mentions that his A
BOOK OF GHOST STORIES was printed the same year as M. R James' GHOST STORIES
OF AN ANTIQUARY. I haven't read much else of Baring-Gould, who is now known
more for his song "Onward Christian Soldiers" than his novels, but our
library at least has his BOOK OF WEREWOLVES among others of his folklore
series. I recommend this volume not just for the good tales (and there are a
couple real screamers) but for the wonderful inclusion of original
illustrations by David Murray-Smith (1865-1952), especially chilling is the
one for "The Leaden Ring". I don't think it stood much chance against M. R.
James' volume for which was scariest but it certainly didn't deserve the
slide into obscurity.
Beware of Church porches tonight.
Deborah McMillion
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:45 -0700
From: "Ann P. Melvin"
Subject: Sabine Baring-Gould [11358]
I once rad an anecdote about the author of "Onward Christian Soldiers" to
the effect that he was being visited by a very High Anglo-Catholic bishop
who disapproved of evangelism and Baring-Gould showed his disapproval of
the bishop by having the choir sing:
"Onward Christian soldiers
Marching as to war
With the Cross of Jesus
Hid behind the door."
David Skene-melvin
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:05:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ruth W. Jeffries"
Subject: Re: My recent TV viewing [11276] [11291] [11354] [11359]
> Samuel West was the nefarious blonde cousin who wanted
> to marry the heroine in order to retain a deed. All names
> now escape me.
Ah yes, he played St. John (not very believably) in the _Jane Eyre_ under
discussion.
Ruth Jeffries
University of Minnesota
jeff0002(at)gold.tc.umn.edu
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:53:34 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: H. James and the "real thing" [11360]
Bob and Jim,
I searched the word "romantic" in an etext of
James' "The real thing", and I did not find Jim's
quote.
http://www.colorado.edu/english/engl4652/realCONTENTS.HTM
So I think we may have to look further.
Stephen D
SDavies(at)mtroyal.ab.ca
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:55:44 -0700 (MST)
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by MtRoyal.AB.CA
From: Linda Anderson
Subject: Jane Eyre [11361]
I'm sorry. I apologize in advance. I can't *stand* anything written by
Jane Austen. I know it's base of me as I love Thomas Hardy and nearly every
one else in the era but I just *gag* on Jane Austen. Her comedies of
manners that elicit guffaws from my husband and sister just make me puke and
change the channel.
I love Charles Dance. I wish I had been able to see him in Sir Larry's
triumph of yesteryear but- I couldn't. sigh. She isn't funny! she isn't
good! I can't stand her! Pride and Prejudice- bah! I don't understand it.
Trollope is better. then again, so is Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber. oi vay is mir.
I'm going on the porch of our local churches tonight- but no one we knew
from family is buried here- will that make a difference or will the dead
travel knowing we are looking for them?
I have a latin teacher on line for those who need help in translation. I
forgot about Mdme Christine Fuller and just tonight called her and asked if
she had email. She does. If Father John or someone would again send me the
latin bits for translation she is willing to have a go at them. She also
does Greek. Teaches in a local high school (and one of only 3 in the area
to offer Greek and Latin not being church related).
Linda Anderson
===0===
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:35:02 -0700 (MST)
From: "STEPHEN DAVIES, MT. ROYAL COLLEGE"
Subject: Austen's smartin' [11362]
Austen is smarting since Linda A. went ape in:
>Subject: Jane Eyre [11361]
>... I just *gag* on Jane Austen. Her comedies of
>manners that elicit guffaws from my husband and sister just make me puke and
>change the channel.
It's hard to imagine anyone gagging you, Linda.
>I'm going on the porch of our local churches tonight- but no one we knew
>from family is buried here- will that make a difference or will the dead
>travel knowing we are looking for them?
The tradition is that you may see someone who is GOING to
die within the year. So it is not a revenant but a premonition
that you will encounter.
I subscribe to the Greek theory that we have had the
knowledge of our doom erased from our memories so we
can function progressively. The story goes that in
the ancient times, when humankind knew everything, they
were too weighed down by the certainty of their impending
demise to accomplish anything.
Similarly, I don't think I want the experience of knowing
that someone else's death is foreordained. Would my psychic
participation in the ghostly announcement somehow encourage
the sad event's momentum?
Stephen D
SDavies(at)mtroyal.ab.ca
End of Gaslight digest.